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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle you know there's explanation

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for everything that appeared in the

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Rendlesham forest incident that involved

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aliens at all it was completely silent

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it comes right over our head it's so

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toxic he's also really standing in the

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clearing he turned over to my father

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held his hand and it looks in his eyes

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and said we're not alone welcome to

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podcast UFO for our live show

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we're live every Wednesday at 8 p.m.

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Eastern Standard Time on podcast UFO

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calm during the show feel free to

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participate live in our chat room and

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don't forget to Like us on our very

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active Facebook page hello and welcome

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to the show I'm Martin Willis your host

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and tonight we have a couple of guests

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coming up we have Ben moss and Tony

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angie ola and we're gonna be talking

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about a little bit about the Socorro

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case and so much more it should be an

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entertaining show those guys are a lot

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of fun and for that we have Alejandro

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Rojas coming up with the news if you

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support the show I want to thank you

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very much and if you're thinking about

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support supporting the show the benefit

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is you get to listen to the full two

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hours and all the archives and it's a

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one-time sign up it's pretty easy and

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for two dollars or more per month I

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guess that's it alejandro we in the

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united states have a new president we do

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we do and i don't know about you i

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stayed up really last night so yeah it

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happened and it it's going to be a very

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interesting ride however long it lasts

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it will but that is one thing that i've

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already agreed with a few people is it

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will definitely be definitely be

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interesting anything going on in the UFO

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world yeah i mean speaking of stories

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that we've posted that are just as

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they've been reported and we'll see

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these ones haven't been picked up by the

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tabloids and turned into something

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different because they're really going

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crazy with that

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why and story still funny out there yeah

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it's popping up all over this this alien

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base it's turned into this Hawaiian

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alien base story when it was innocently

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just a photo posted to move on by

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someone and the guy even said it might

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have been some kind of piece of junk on

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my lens or a bit of my training or it

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could have been a bird but now you know

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if you google Hawaiian UFO you'll get

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the story about how it's an alien base

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so these that luckily haven't happened

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yet but though this one is pretty

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fascinating you know all on its own this

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is a sighting that was reported to move

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on the incident took place on October

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22nd at 8 p.m. where this witness a

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white triangle that they said was well

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defined with a red globe at its base

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that's kind of strange they said they

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saw it for about 20 minutes it remained

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stationary it they described it as

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looking like two long white fluorescent

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bulbs configured in such a way that it

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gave the appearance of a triangle shape

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with a red light at its base the

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interior appeared darker than the

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lighted objects when they looked at it

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with an 8 x power binoculars and it's

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fun with this because the person

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submitted pictures some people get are I

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mean drawings I should say not pictures

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some people get frustrated were there

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drawing pictures but not everybody can

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get pictures and you know even if there

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are pictures I think it's helpful to

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have drawings of what the perception

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from the witness is because often as we

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know the pictures don't turn out to be

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anything like what they said they saw

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hmm good point and the perspectives are

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can always be different as well from yep

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you know especially if you're taking it

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with a I phone camera or something like

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that yep exactly

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so the MUFON guys you know did look it

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over I don't know that they came up with

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a conclusion not that I read I might

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have missed it but they're still

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investigating but they did they best far

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have not found you know anything to be

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in that area that it could have been and

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I don't even know if I mentioned where

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but this is in Florida and this was a

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couple of people who saw this was this

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was in Bradenton Florida so yeah this

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was pretty interesting you know the area

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yeah my aunt lived there for years I

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know that whole area has built up really

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fast uh-huh for like a whole over 30

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years it's like every time I've seen it

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it's changed it's very very busy area

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I'm highly populated bursting at the

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seams really mm-hmm

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yep Florida supposed to be a nice area I

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mean I loved it when I went to the MUFON

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symposium recently it was beautiful so

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green and the weather was great it was

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really nice although sometimes you got

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to watch out for that the the wildlife

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the large reptilian wildlife in the area

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yeah alligators mm-hmm right so what

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else is going on

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so another one this happened on October

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28th at 7:45 p.m. and this one I I don't

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know why when I read it and especially

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the witness testimony I can tell their

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excitement you know it was a couple

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years ago move on did kind of a play

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where they read deeds but everybody just

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kind of read them and I think they they

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could have infused some more excitement

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into it so I'm gonna kind of do that

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here for you okay

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sad okay let's see here I saw a strange

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object right in front of me in the sky

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that was sitting still I thought it was

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a plane but it was too close to the

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ground to be a plane so I rolled my

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window down to listen just to be sure it

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began to slowly end and an extremely

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smooth and constant speed fly over my

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car heading the opposite direction of me

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as it passed overhead I saw that it had

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three red lights on all three corners

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and the front one was blink

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how was that that was really good

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I was ready to do sound effects but you

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didn't say you heard anything yeah no

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and then I heard a loud noise noise he

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didn't really hear a loud noise okay

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they didn't hear any noise which is an

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important part of it so it just said you

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know it was moving very quickly

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another triangular-shaped object it

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didn't make any noise like a jet should

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make a noise so it the interesting part

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of this is just yet again another

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triangular craft this person saying it

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was at about treetop level so that's

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pretty small that flew over his car and

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in the wilds of Georgia Moultrie Georgia

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well the southern states a couple of

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them huh yeah so is there anything else

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nothing at all nothing at all well no I

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guess I get those are all those just a

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couple sightings that that's about oh

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yeah otherwise same old same old no big

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news but I'm sure if you looked at the

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tabloids you would find something

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extraordinary

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aliens eating the heads off of innocent

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bystanders here and there's some

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craziness yeah yeah well I think you're

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right how you comment know what you

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commented on earlier that you know you

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just have to we just have to keep our

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side of the road clean basically and you

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know you can't control tabloids or

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anyone that is trying to make a splash

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out there and it's too bad it just

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muddies the waters as far as people

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taking this whole thing seriously or not

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let's do that mm-hmm

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yeah yeah what can you do except for

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what we try to do which is try to lay

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down the information and what we know

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out there with sources in credibility so

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because

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really that the ceiling is kind of well

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you know it can stick around mythology's

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do stick around so at least there is a

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source for something more credible and I

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I know I get feedback that that people

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appreciate that so thank you very much

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to two people who do contact us and and

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do appreciate that because you know what

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it's harder to look for the facts and to

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research and find sources and it is just

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to make stuff up yeah or make

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assumptions now that's the easy road

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yeah all right man well thanks a lot and

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we'll be talking to next week thank you

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talk to you next week

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all right everyone hang in there for

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this quick music break we'll be right

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you

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it going good

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then you there I'm here hey I was wrong

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let's see I bet you guys a couple of

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times heaven I think both two years in a

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row out in Phoenix yeah at least a

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couple three times right yeah we'll be

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out there again we're gonna we'll see

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out there in February yeah I can't wait

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such a nice time we're gonna really

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we're gonna really do an interview with

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you then only we're gonna do the

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interviewing yeah I'm you're doing a

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show now actually we did you you and I

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the three of us kind of clowned around

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and did like a couple of interviews but

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you've actually built on that a little

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bit and our doing some type of video

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what is it that you're doing exactly

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yeah we call it the UFO guys and we got

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our first sample up on our website at

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wwlp.com you can click on on pictures or

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click on new pictures that are taking

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it'll take you straight to the page that

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we now have the new pictures from

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Greensboro North Carolina where Ben

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interviews Travis Walton Nick Redfern

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and Tom Reed ah okay and that by the way

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that's Tony that's speaking right there

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and you guys are a lot of fun I had a

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lot of fun hanging out with you that was

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just a blast and oh that's why the heavy

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drinking and drugs will do I'm not sure

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how much of a part of that I was but

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anyway I observe the Mortons doing bad

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bills and the aspirin yeah that's right

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Flintstone vitamins about as heavy duty

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as I get it these days you can't go

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wrong we were talking about anal probes

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and implants right I think that's what

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it was like that's what I was so moving

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right along here you you guys you got

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really into it now actually we met also

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at Ray Stanford's house back in is that

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I want to say 2014 or is it 2015

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maybe 2005

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I think it was early 2015 or late 2014 I

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can't remember but yeah it was a good

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time he did your show from there yeah

256
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that's right it was so blistering hot

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remember that yeah

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oh yeah but you were really now you had

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when I had talked to you you were going

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to erase all the time you're not how

261
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long does it take you to get there

262
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you're not that far away right we're

263
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about 45 minutes away roughly we took a

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break lately because I've been studying

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Ben's been working and Ray's been

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working with Goddard on the new on the

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Goddard slab yeah and what the Goddard

268
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slab is is basically a dinosaur tracks

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and there's some all kinds of

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discoveries in this one great big slab

271
00:14:00,260 --> 00:13:57,510
it's it's real important and there's

272
00:14:01,970 --> 00:14:00,270
really not much to say right now until

273
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:01,980
some it's going to be a scientific paper

274
00:14:05,570 --> 00:14:04,170
published and everything else is going

275
00:14:07,130 --> 00:14:05,580
to be a lot of publicity about Ray

276
00:14:11,690 --> 00:14:07,140
doesn't really want anyone to talk about

277
00:14:14,510 --> 00:14:11,700
it yet but he has done it's funny either

278
00:14:16,460 --> 00:14:14,520
looking at UFOs up in the sky or looking

279
00:14:20,660 --> 00:14:16,470
down on the ground he's going to real

280
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:20,670
keen eye to catch these dinosaur tracks

281
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:22,770
and it's really he's gotten quite a

282
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:25,890
great worldwide reputation pretty

283
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:27,570
amazing yeah when he when he had that a

284
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:30,000
Washington Post reporter that wrote that

285
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:32,970
article about him in 2012 ray dragged

286
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:35,250
him down to the creek behind his house

287
00:14:40,670 --> 00:14:38,250
and found some dinosaur bones down there

288
00:14:41,930 --> 00:14:40,680
by the creek and the guy was just really

289
00:14:43,850 --> 00:14:41,940
impressed he kept picking up things

290
00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:43,860
going is this a dinosaur bone I was like

291
00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:47,910
no that's mud but but yeah he proved it

292
00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:49,710
when he was out with this guy I think

293
00:14:55,310 --> 00:14:52,860
they found a claw or something from a

294
00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:55,320
notice or it's pretty interesting Wow

295
00:14:59,720 --> 00:14:57,810
Wow amazing he also that you know you

296
00:15:02,210 --> 00:14:59,730
know he's got that amazing collection of

297
00:15:04,430 --> 00:15:02,220
pre-columbian artifacts and vessels and

298
00:15:06,140 --> 00:15:04,440
probably the largest look better than

299
00:15:08,060 --> 00:15:06,150
the Smithsonian has I believe yeah when

300
00:15:09,140 --> 00:15:08,070
the Smithsonian guy come out comes over

301
00:15:10,370 --> 00:15:09,150
he always says he's got a better

302
00:15:14,810 --> 00:15:10,380
collection he has back at the

303
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:14,820
Smithsonian Wow yeah yeah it is being in

304
00:15:20,090 --> 00:15:18,690
the kind of nd I am a slightly involved

305
00:15:22,579 --> 00:15:20,100
in ancient arts you know

306
00:15:24,769 --> 00:15:22,589
ancient pre-columbian pieces and I do a

307
00:15:29,180 --> 00:15:24,779
lot of appraisals working on one right

308
00:15:31,460 --> 00:15:29,190
now actually Peruvian and all but it was

309
00:15:35,749 --> 00:15:31,470
just fascinating really fascinating to

310
00:15:38,030 --> 00:15:35,759
get to go to his place but Socorro you

311
00:15:39,980 --> 00:15:38,040
have I don't want to say taken the reins

312
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:39,990
but you've actually taken a strong

313
00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:44,690
interest in keeping that story alive and

314
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:49,680
and you you've done presentations more

315
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:53,040
than one on this haven't you yeah we

316
00:15:57,730 --> 00:15:55,290
just got back from Orlando we did a

317
00:16:00,170 --> 00:15:57,740
presentation there of the Socorro

318
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:00,180
landing which a lot of people

319
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:02,730
misunderstand and called the Socorro

320
00:16:06,769 --> 00:16:05,130
crash we have to always correct people

321
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:06,779
and remind them that it was a landing

322
00:16:11,569 --> 00:16:08,880
that a police officer witnessed and saw

323
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:11,579
take off it was at the yeah the 2016

324
00:16:15,259 --> 00:16:14,250
MUFON symposium and we had a good time

325
00:16:17,930 --> 00:16:15,269
as a great turnout

326
00:16:19,309 --> 00:16:17,940
we saw Alejandro down there a lot of a

327
00:16:23,870 --> 00:16:19,319
lot of old friends we haven't seen in a

328
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:23,880
while and we also filmed thinks yeah we

329
00:16:27,379 --> 00:16:26,490
filmed with NASA's unexplained files on

330
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:27,389
the Discovery Channel

331
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:29,279
um they haven't released those episodes

332
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:32,250
yet so I think it's the next season

333
00:16:35,809 --> 00:16:34,290
which might be season 5 I think it is

334
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:35,819
and they're gonna hopefully you know

335
00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:37,290
give us a heads up we'll put links up on

336
00:16:42,079 --> 00:16:39,360
our website for those who want to

337
00:16:43,579 --> 00:16:42,089
directly access those those episodes

338
00:16:46,129 --> 00:16:43,589
uh-huh

339
00:16:47,809 --> 00:16:46,139
just to let listening the live listening

340
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:47,819
the audience know that I'm not able to

341
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:50,610
take phone calls this evening I had to

342
00:16:54,079 --> 00:16:52,800
switch my Skype address we had trouble

343
00:16:57,769 --> 00:16:54,089
with them I don't know what's going on

344
00:16:59,480 --> 00:16:57,779
with my regular Skype account but had to

345
00:17:01,309 --> 00:16:59,490
switch to a different Skype account to

346
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:01,319
get this show I mean we just barely came

347
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:03,600
on the air just you know and just barely

348
00:17:09,380 --> 00:17:07,770
made it live however if later on if you

349
00:17:12,159 --> 00:17:09,390
wanted to Skype you all you have to do

350
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:12,169
is the contact name is podcast you fo

351
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:14,970
for the Skype name but I don't have a

352
00:17:19,130 --> 00:17:16,650
Skype number attached to this particular

353
00:17:20,750 --> 00:17:19,140
Skype account so no phone calls but you

354
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:20,760
could Skype in if you wanted to you can

355
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:23,850
also go in our chat room at podcast UFO

356
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:26,490
comm it's a real easy one-click sign up

357
00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:28,799
or two click sign up and you can pose

358
00:17:32,899 --> 00:17:30,960
questions we have some couple new people

359
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:32,909
in there tonight you can pose questions

360
00:17:36,570 --> 00:17:33,730
for

361
00:17:38,340 --> 00:17:36,580
Tony and Ben as we go along something

362
00:17:41,250 --> 00:17:38,350
new I've talked about recently as I

363
00:17:46,740 --> 00:17:41,260
reopened after after getting over

364
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:46,750
spammed I've reopened the forum and the

365
00:17:52,409 --> 00:17:48,490
forum used to be real active when it

366
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:52,419
first started I have a forum in there

367
00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:54,130
where you can actually pose questions

368
00:17:57,779 --> 00:17:55,510
for our guests so we have a couple of

369
00:18:00,149 --> 00:17:57,789
questions that will be coming up for our

370
00:18:03,060 --> 00:18:00,159
guests you can also email me questions

371
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:03,070
if you choose I'd rather get the forum

372
00:18:10,889 --> 00:18:04,480
going but if you want to email me that's

373
00:18:13,259 --> 00:18:10,899
martinet podcast UFO calm so when you

374
00:18:14,669 --> 00:18:13,269
have been looking now I know you

375
00:18:17,159 --> 00:18:14,679
actually went to Socorro because I

376
00:18:19,259 --> 00:18:17,169
remember we talked about that and you

377
00:18:22,980 --> 00:18:19,269
have really been looking deeply into

378
00:18:25,379 --> 00:18:22,990
this case now there any new revelations

379
00:18:26,909 --> 00:18:25,389
that you have found but first of all

380
00:18:29,490 --> 00:18:26,919
before we get into any of that can you

381
00:18:31,710 --> 00:18:29,500
for the listener that is not real

382
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:31,720
familiar with Socorro case which it does

383
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:33,690
seem to come up quite a bit on this show

384
00:18:40,919 --> 00:18:38,110
as one of the most substantial cases out

385
00:18:44,220 --> 00:18:40,929
there with such a great witness Lonnie

386
00:18:47,549 --> 00:18:44,230
Zamora can you in a nutshell one of you

387
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:47,559
Tony or been talk about what actually

388
00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:49,690
happened at Sakura back in I want to say

389
00:18:56,430 --> 00:18:52,529
1965 I would be wrong what's the date

390
00:18:58,860 --> 00:18:56,440
1964 April 24th all right so go ahead

391
00:19:01,470 --> 00:18:58,870
want to be if you can tell the listening

392
00:19:04,649 --> 00:19:01,480
audience exactly what happened

393
00:19:07,259 --> 00:19:04,659
yeah Lonnie Zamora was on random Patrol

394
00:19:09,180 --> 00:19:07,269
a speeder passed and he started

395
00:19:11,340 --> 00:19:09,190
following the speeder and as he went out

396
00:19:14,399 --> 00:19:11,350
on this road that we drove down we drove

397
00:19:17,460 --> 00:19:14,409
the route that we think he took but he

398
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:17,470
saw a blue flame and something crossing

399
00:19:22,649 --> 00:19:21,130
the sky there was a roaring sound so he

400
00:19:25,470 --> 00:19:22,659
started following that he didn't know

401
00:19:27,210 --> 00:19:25,480
what was going on but with the roar he

402
00:19:29,070 --> 00:19:27,220
knows that this thing was near the

403
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:29,080
dynamite Shack so he was worried that

404
00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:31,210
maybe that thing there might be some

405
00:19:37,919 --> 00:19:34,510
trouble so he went up this road which is

406
00:19:40,259 --> 00:19:37,929
really bad I beat my rental car when we

407
00:19:42,180 --> 00:19:40,269
went up at but and it's the same today

408
00:19:44,789 --> 00:19:42,190
as it was in he goes up the road takes

409
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:44,799
him three tries he crest the hill right

410
00:19:47,070 --> 00:19:46,210
before he crests the hill he sees an

411
00:19:49,620 --> 00:19:47,080
object with

412
00:19:52,769 --> 00:19:49,630
two figures next to it small figures and

413
00:19:54,570 --> 00:19:52,779
first he thinks it's a over turn van or

414
00:19:56,580 --> 00:19:54,580
something then when he gets up over the

415
00:20:00,720 --> 00:19:56,590
hill he sees it's a white egg-shaped

416
00:20:04,130 --> 00:20:00,730
object on four landing struts and the

417
00:20:07,259 --> 00:20:04,140
two small beans he saw next to it had

418
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:07,269
disappeared and he heard two Slams like

419
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:09,490
a inner and outer hull door slamming and

420
00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:12,970
then the object started roaring again

421
00:20:20,299 --> 00:20:16,750
and he when he hit the dirt and then he

422
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:20,309
got back up and the object became silent

423
00:20:25,860 --> 00:20:23,710
retracted it's for landing gear he saw a

424
00:20:27,539 --> 00:20:25,870
symbol on the side which we've been

425
00:20:30,990 --> 00:20:27,549
going back and forth with Kevin Randall

426
00:20:32,909 --> 00:20:31,000
on the symbol but anyway it lifted up an

427
00:20:35,610 --> 00:20:32,919
intern silent and started heading

428
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:35,620
towards the perlite mills in Socorro the

429
00:20:41,340 --> 00:20:37,840
mountain range and accelerating all the

430
00:20:43,919 --> 00:20:41,350
while and as a police officer reported

431
00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:43,929
it right away another police officer

432
00:20:48,750 --> 00:20:47,110
showed up we think he saw it too but

433
00:20:52,799 --> 00:20:48,760
what's interesting when you asked about

434
00:20:54,779 --> 00:20:52,809
updates we we did find that there was

435
00:20:57,029 --> 00:20:54,789
another the police had talked about

436
00:21:00,000 --> 00:20:57,039
another landing of this craft near the

437
00:21:02,190 --> 00:21:00,010
canal at Socorro then we got Kevin

438
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:02,200
Randall involved and Kevin there were

439
00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:03,370
some things that we say in our

440
00:21:07,879 --> 00:21:05,049
presentation we just don't have time to

441
00:21:10,649 --> 00:21:07,889
go into the detail so he he checked on

442
00:21:13,580 --> 00:21:10,659
the fact that three people did report

443
00:21:16,289 --> 00:21:13,590
seeing the blue flame before Lonnie's a

444
00:21:18,750 --> 00:21:16,299
account happened and he actually found

445
00:21:20,899 --> 00:21:18,760
that holder had said that was true they

446
00:21:27,090 --> 00:21:20,909
just didn't make police reports and then

447
00:21:29,519 --> 00:21:27,100
he got a hold of Morano where Bob Mercer

448
00:21:32,279 --> 00:21:29,529
Ohio State MUFON gentleman got those

449
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:32,289
files as kind of blue book files that

450
00:21:37,139 --> 00:21:34,330
were missing from the whole oh yeah case

451
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:37,149
files and so we we've got a hold of

452
00:21:43,529 --> 00:21:40,210
those and so Kevin Randall actually got

453
00:21:45,539 --> 00:21:43,539
a hold of lieutenant Morano who those

454
00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:45,549
files came from did make sure he wanted

455
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:47,350
to he found out he was alive first of

456
00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:48,730
all but he wanted to make sure that the

457
00:21:54,299 --> 00:21:50,080
Providence was there that these were

458
00:21:56,519 --> 00:21:54,309
actually blue book notes and turns out

459
00:21:57,910 --> 00:21:56,529
they were not part of the files but they

460
00:22:01,299 --> 00:21:57,920
were probably written by the

461
00:22:03,210 --> 00:22:01,309
the Bluebook people hmm so there's a lot

462
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:03,220
of before we get a lot of things like

463
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:07,010
separated from where there wouldn't be

464
00:22:13,030 --> 00:22:10,010
any access to to it or what do you mean

465
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:13,040
by that well as Ray would say there's a

466
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:14,570
lot of details missing from the official

467
00:22:17,890 --> 00:22:16,010
report the fact that Lonnie hit the

468
00:22:20,770 --> 00:22:17,900
ground there's a lot of things missing

469
00:22:22,570 --> 00:22:20,780
the blue flame the the evidence the

470
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:22,580
metal and the rock that was found there

471
00:22:26,169 --> 00:22:24,410
there's just so much it was missing that

472
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:26,179
these could have been notes that they

473
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:27,770
just didn't want in there or were

474
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:30,080
written by people and never associated

475
00:22:34,210 --> 00:22:32,960
with the file but the box of material

476
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:34,220
you got was very interesting it had

477
00:22:39,549 --> 00:22:36,799
footage old UFO footage I think the

478
00:22:41,020 --> 00:22:39,559
original trimming ttan footage from I

479
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:41,030
think that was Michigan of the object

480
00:22:45,490 --> 00:22:44,240
flying really fast in the sky so Kevin

481
00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:45,500
did a really good job you know it's a

482
00:22:50,049 --> 00:22:47,840
pretty thorough guy of verifying a lot

483
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:50,059
of the data that we came up with and

484
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:51,890
there were some it's just some new

485
00:22:55,870 --> 00:22:54,320
things that have come about all the

486
00:22:58,419 --> 00:22:55,880
police officers admitted that they had

487
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:58,429
seen this object they just didn't report

488
00:23:02,680 --> 00:22:59,840
it because they saw the way that Lonnie

489
00:23:06,970 --> 00:23:02,690
Zamora was treated mm-hmm someone just

490
00:23:09,789 --> 00:23:06,980
posted on the on the message board why

491
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:09,799
would a ET craft use propulsion that

492
00:23:15,370 --> 00:23:11,690
produced a blue flame that's just plain

493
00:23:17,140 --> 00:23:15,380
stupid what's your cousin that's yeah

494
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:17,150
like you know that stupid is as stupid

495
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:22,610
does um how do we know you know why

496
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:24,650
wasn't out red while wasn't it green you

497
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:27,290
know it's like blue seems to be inviting

498
00:23:31,299 --> 00:23:29,120
them I think any plane at all is what he

499
00:23:33,159 --> 00:23:31,309
was getting at but I'm not sure yeah I

500
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:33,169
mean it wasn't necessarily a flame we

501
00:23:38,169 --> 00:23:35,360
call it a flame so how it was described

502
00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:38,179
but it's quite likely that it would

503
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:39,919
could have been like the release of us

504
00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:42,110
like a subatomic particle inventing so

505
00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:44,720
to speak because this flame it knifed

506
00:23:50,020 --> 00:23:47,990
into the ground slicing a crea si si

507
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:50,030
Bush you know right in half and it takes

508
00:23:56,380 --> 00:23:53,690
a lot of a lot of heat to do that and it

509
00:23:57,820 --> 00:23:56,390
kind of changed the the soil a little

510
00:24:02,320 --> 00:23:57,830
bit there because even when Ben and I

511
00:24:05,409 --> 00:24:02,330
went to visit the ground zero area we

512
00:24:09,250 --> 00:24:05,419
noticed that where the flame was

513
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:09,260
reported the the the sound was was

514
00:24:13,060 --> 00:24:10,880
noticeably different

515
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:13,070
brighter whites you know it almost felt

516
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:15,170
a little bit different then people were

517
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:16,640
asking us why don't you bring some fat

518
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:18,770
back and it's funny cuz it's like you

519
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:20,210
get wrapped up in the moment and stuff

520
00:24:22,750 --> 00:24:21,200
and like there's really nothing to

521
00:24:24,130 --> 00:24:22,760
discover I mean other than the fact that

522
00:24:25,390 --> 00:24:24,140
the texture feels a little bit different

523
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:25,400
it looks a little bit different than the

524
00:24:29,380 --> 00:24:27,770
surrounding soil but there's there's no

525
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:29,390
radiation left there there's really

526
00:24:35,380 --> 00:24:32,890
nothing - it's really analyzed but

527
00:24:37,150 --> 00:24:35,390
that's why it was blue because that's

528
00:24:39,250 --> 00:24:37,160
what it was reported Lonnie did a really

529
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:39,260
good job reporting that it was blue we

530
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:40,850
can only speculate that as possibly

531
00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:43,970
subatomic particles being released you

532
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:45,590
know there's a roaring sound there's a

533
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:47,840
different Drive it seems like when it

534
00:24:52,150 --> 00:24:49,730
reached a certain elevation because it

535
00:24:54,130 --> 00:24:52,160
went completely silent when against the

536
00:24:56,710 --> 00:24:54,140
wind that was gusting up to 40 miles per

537
00:24:58,450 --> 00:24:56,720
hour towards the perlite mill so there's

538
00:25:00,150 --> 00:24:58,460
a lot of really you know interesting

539
00:25:03,670 --> 00:25:00,160
facts and he reported a lot of this

540
00:25:06,010 --> 00:25:03,680
immediately in Spanish you know right

541
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:06,020
after the craft left me a radio show or

542
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:10,250
something right on the yeah you

543
00:25:15,490 --> 00:25:12,290
mentioned that on Walters Road a radio

544
00:25:16,810 --> 00:25:15,500
show but he was on the CB radio back to

545
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:16,820
you know his headquarters when he was

546
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:20,090
talking about what he had seen yeah let

547
00:25:25,090 --> 00:25:22,970
me add that you know just like when we

548
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:25,100
go to the moon we have one craft that

549
00:25:29,620 --> 00:25:26,960
gets us there and another one with the

550
00:25:31,660 --> 00:25:29,630
you know maybe two different types of

551
00:25:35,230 --> 00:25:31,670
propulsion to get you to land and take

552
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:35,240
off but the Socorro craft was a blue

553
00:25:41,980 --> 00:25:39,130
knifing probably more like a you know

554
00:25:46,060 --> 00:25:41,990
what a photon engine would look like it

555
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:46,070
was not a propellant based propulsion so

556
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:48,410
that pretty much ruled out any type of

557
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:50,930
black project or anything and most

558
00:25:55,390 --> 00:25:53,210
people assume it was the the lunar

559
00:25:58,060 --> 00:25:55,400
module but the lunar module didn't have

560
00:26:01,000 --> 00:25:58,070
an internal engine in 64 there were no

561
00:26:04,750 --> 00:26:01,010
black projects the FBI CIA and White

562
00:26:06,820 --> 00:26:04,760
House were all asking Hector quintanilla

563
00:26:08,410 --> 00:26:06,830
to get he gave top-secret clearance so

564
00:26:10,180 --> 00:26:08,420
he could get all these bases because he

565
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:10,190
thought this thing was in a hangar in

566
00:26:14,650 --> 00:26:12,770
the base somewhere and and lieutenant

567
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:14,660
holder a captain holder was up range

568
00:26:18,820 --> 00:26:16,730
commander of white sands he knew it was

569
00:26:20,740 --> 00:26:18,830
flying around there Bell Labs Hughes

570
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:20,750
Aircraft all these company said it's not

571
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:22,490
ours we didn't have anything flying that

572
00:26:26,090 --> 00:26:23,010
day

573
00:26:28,159 --> 00:26:26,100
so by process of elimination you know

574
00:26:29,930 --> 00:26:28,169
our conclusion was it's a non humid

575
00:26:32,419 --> 00:26:29,940
event we just don't know where it came

576
00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:32,429
from or what it was but the technology

577
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:34,710
is still something that it with those

578
00:26:38,450 --> 00:26:36,720
characteristics today we don't build

579
00:26:40,340 --> 00:26:38,460
crafts like that we don't have crafts

580
00:26:42,470 --> 00:26:40,350
that can do that we don't have as Ray

581
00:26:44,539 --> 00:26:42,480
would say midgets as black project

582
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:44,549
pilots you know there's a lot of things

583
00:26:48,530 --> 00:26:46,650
about the case that just never added up

584
00:26:51,710 --> 00:26:48,540
plus it's still an unknown it was never

585
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:51,720
solved and Hector really really wanted

586
00:26:56,030 --> 00:26:53,760
to solve it and he hoped it was a black

587
00:27:00,110 --> 00:26:56,040
project but he never found evidence of

588
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:00,120
that so the blue flame you know I think

589
00:27:05,270 --> 00:27:03,450
you've ever seen it like a a plasma

590
00:27:06,980 --> 00:27:05,280
engine that's what it probably looked

591
00:27:09,380 --> 00:27:06,990
like which is not really a flame at all

592
00:27:12,530 --> 00:27:09,390
it's like a blue beam almost you know

593
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:12,540
that's uh that that's yeah I agree with

594
00:27:20,450 --> 00:27:18,090
that now everyone that has ever been on

595
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:20,460
the show has all said the same thing

596
00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:22,770
that the witnesses do not get better

597
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:27,200
than Lonnie's and Zamora and I know that

598
00:27:34,940 --> 00:27:30,510
he he mentioned that Ray's ray

599
00:27:36,590 --> 00:27:34,950
Stanford's book a God we're gonna get it

600
00:27:40,669 --> 00:27:36,600
wrong flying saucer in the Pentagon

601
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:40,679
Papers thank you

602
00:27:46,669 --> 00:27:44,880
Ray's book was a Lonnie Zamora told his

603
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:46,679
daughter that that was the best account

604
00:27:51,770 --> 00:27:49,290
that anyone had written about what

605
00:27:53,810 --> 00:27:51,780
actually happened now I do want to talk

606
00:27:57,530 --> 00:27:53,820
to you about you just mentioned the look

607
00:27:59,060 --> 00:27:57,540
a few minutes ago about the the symbol

608
00:28:00,919 --> 00:27:59,070
on the side because it seems like that's

609
00:28:03,140 --> 00:28:00,929
been I don't want to say a bone of

610
00:28:07,549 --> 00:28:03,150
contention but it's been something

611
00:28:12,590 --> 00:28:07,559
that's been focused on a lot over with

612
00:28:16,159 --> 00:28:12,600
Ray and and holder's son involved I

613
00:28:19,030 --> 00:28:16,169
believe and a few few other people it's

614
00:28:23,330 --> 00:28:19,040
been kind of controversial and I

615
00:28:26,930 --> 00:28:23,340
understand that Lonnie had written down

616
00:28:30,020 --> 00:28:26,940
the symbol I guess right shortly after

617
00:28:34,220 --> 00:28:30,030
the incident and then he was told a few

618
00:28:36,450 --> 00:28:34,230
days later to change the symbol so there

619
00:28:38,660 --> 00:28:36,460
wasn't any type of copycat or

620
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:38,670
type of situation where someone could

621
00:28:44,430 --> 00:28:41,530
say hoax something or say that they

622
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:44,440
witnessed it when indeed the symbol was

623
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:48,730
would be different so that being said

624
00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:51,730
have you come to any saw the conclusion

625
00:28:57,750 --> 00:28:55,510
about what the symbol actually was yeah

626
00:29:00,090 --> 00:28:57,760
um you know I've been a lot of people

627
00:29:02,220 --> 00:29:00,100
getting really heated about the symbol

628
00:29:05,370 --> 00:29:02,230
and the first thing I want to say about

629
00:29:07,710 --> 00:29:05,380
it is you know the symbols not that

630
00:29:09,450 --> 00:29:07,720
important because what is important is a

631
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:09,460
something amazing did happen that's

632
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:13,090
obviously otherworldly but you know they

633
00:29:17,250 --> 00:29:15,370
like to you know nitpick little things

634
00:29:18,990 --> 00:29:17,260
like the symbol and which one was it how

635
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:19,000
about the fact that there was a symbol

636
00:29:22,650 --> 00:29:20,530
there was something seen on the craft

637
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:22,660
that this amazing thing happened it

638
00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:24,490
landed it took off look at all the facts

639
00:29:30,780 --> 00:29:27,310
all the hard evidence that that it is

640
00:29:32,610 --> 00:29:30,790
very reliable this symbol was obvious

641
00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:32,620
skated obviously if you really you know

642
00:29:36,750 --> 00:29:34,870
just put your detective hat on - you

643
00:29:38,670 --> 00:29:36,760
know detect hoaxers and people calling

644
00:29:40,410 --> 00:29:38,680
and saying I saw it - and if they

645
00:29:42,050 --> 00:29:40,420
described the wrong symbol then the Air

646
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:42,060
Force would know not to waste their time

647
00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:44,410
investigating that the fact of the

648
00:29:49,170 --> 00:29:47,080
matter is is that everybody knew what

649
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:49,180
Lonnie saw because he told everybody he

650
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:51,250
drew it for people even Walter Schroeder

651
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:52,960
knew that it was an inverted V with

652
00:29:56,100 --> 00:29:54,370
three lines through it Lonnie was

653
00:29:57,810 --> 00:29:56,110
drawing in on napkins and you know

654
00:29:59,550 --> 00:29:57,820
everyone in town knew what it was and

655
00:30:01,290 --> 00:29:59,560
then the Air Force came and came up with

656
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:01,300
this whole thing about using a different

657
00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:04,690
symbol for those reasons and then even

658
00:30:08,850 --> 00:30:07,630
ray initially thought that the inverted

659
00:30:11,490 --> 00:30:08,860
V with the three lines through it was

660
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:11,500
incorrect and he even documented it in

661
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:13,090
his report saying that this is the wrong

662
00:30:19,020 --> 00:30:14,770
symbol then later changed his mind when

663
00:30:22,740 --> 00:30:19,030
you realize that pre the official symbol

664
00:30:25,050 --> 00:30:22,750
that Lonnie had to sign before he he

665
00:30:27,180 --> 00:30:25,060
signed that little drawing that he did

666
00:30:29,780 --> 00:30:27,190
not make that was not done in his in his

667
00:30:32,490 --> 00:30:29,790
handwriting it was only his signature

668
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:32,500
before that symbol came about everyone

669
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:34,090
was already talking about an inverted V

670
00:30:38,910 --> 00:30:36,370
with three lines through it so this

671
00:30:40,020 --> 00:30:38,920
umbrella looking arched shaped thing

672
00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:40,030
with an arrow in it and all that

673
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:43,120
elaborateness that that's not the right

674
00:30:47,010 --> 00:30:44,770
symbol and we've been going in circles

675
00:30:49,650 --> 00:30:47,020
about this and everyone's getting all

676
00:30:51,690 --> 00:30:49,660
fired up about it but uh I like

677
00:30:53,730 --> 00:30:51,700
say is don't worry about it don't worry

678
00:30:55,710 --> 00:30:53,740
about the symbol exactly what it was

679
00:30:57,330 --> 00:30:55,720
that's not what we should be focusing on

680
00:30:59,430 --> 00:30:57,340
I think it was a radiation symbol I

681
00:31:02,850 --> 00:30:59,440
don't think it was you know could have

682
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:02,860
been the V was showing the location of

683
00:31:07,710 --> 00:31:05,290
the thruster and the three bars are a

684
00:31:10,860 --> 00:31:07,720
universal symbol for radioactivity if it

685
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:10,870
was red red is a universal symbol for

686
00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:13,810
probably danger because red is hot fires

687
00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:16,720
red things that hurt you a red but I

688
00:31:21,690 --> 00:31:19,110
think it was an e to jose symbol

689
00:31:24,210 --> 00:31:21,700
galactic galactic version of it

690
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:24,220
Hynek drouth symbol in the archives that

691
00:31:28,650 --> 00:31:26,320
Rey found inverted V with three bars

692
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:28,660
also I don't know how you can come up

693
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:30,970
with that if the other symbol was a true

694
00:31:37,470 --> 00:31:34,210
symbol holder admitted to a Sun that he

695
00:31:40,890 --> 00:31:37,480
had Lonnie changed the symbol so I just

696
00:31:42,210 --> 00:31:40,900
think that this you know there's there's

697
00:31:43,650 --> 00:31:42,220
a couple things wrong with this little

698
00:31:45,150 --> 00:31:43,660
scrap of paper first of all it looks

699
00:31:48,270 --> 00:31:45,160
like the corner of a newspaper and

700
00:31:49,950 --> 00:31:48,280
Lonnie had you know police dispatched

701
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:49,960
paper and note paper and all kinds of

702
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:51,250
different things that he would have

703
00:31:55,860 --> 00:31:54,010
drawn it on I think that he probably

704
00:31:57,690 --> 00:31:55,870
drew the right symbol but then they -

705
00:32:00,300 --> 00:31:57,700
you know I said no and tore a piece of

706
00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:00,310
paper and said we're gonna draw the

707
00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:02,470
symbol you sign it and as you know as an

708
00:32:08,340 --> 00:32:05,110
Army veteran you need to you know follow

709
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:08,350
what we say and be you know patriotic so

710
00:32:12,690 --> 00:32:11,290
we could be wrong but I think the

711
00:32:14,970 --> 00:32:12,700
evidence points more towards the

712
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:14,980
inverted V D with three bars and that

713
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:16,210
what's interesting is that symbol

714
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:18,610
doesn't really show up anywhere in any

715
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:22,090
type of alchemy or ancient symbols there

716
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:24,490
are things that are close but I think it

717
00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:26,530
just might be a danger don't stand here

718
00:32:31,530 --> 00:32:29,470
a radiation type thing on the side of

719
00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:31,540
the craft how deeply did you search that

720
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:34,150
symbol like through you know like

721
00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:35,970
trademarks and things like that as well

722
00:32:42,060 --> 00:32:39,310
well yeah it showed up in several

723
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:42,070
newspapers days after the event drew

724
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:42,490
power

725
00:32:51,660 --> 00:32:49,600
to find out if that was a little Ani

726
00:32:54,750 --> 00:32:51,670
star that looks a lot more like this

727
00:32:56,970 --> 00:32:54,760
fake symbol they drew an astro power you

728
00:32:59,340 --> 00:32:56,980
know as we were investigating and not

729
00:33:00,960 --> 00:32:59,350
making any crafts they just made

730
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:00,970
software

731
00:33:05,340 --> 00:33:03,760
there was no symbol like that every

732
00:33:07,530 --> 00:33:05,350
used on a vehicle that has ever been

733
00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:07,540
built we usually put the American flag

734
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:11,470
on our space vehicles but yeah just

735
00:33:16,410 --> 00:33:13,450
there there's inverted V isn't theirs

736
00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:16,420
inverted V with a dot in it and there's

737
00:33:21,180 --> 00:33:17,980
there's things that are close but

738
00:33:24,180 --> 00:33:21,190
nothing like that and I just think it's

739
00:33:25,860 --> 00:33:24,190
a simple warning or you know could be

740
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:25,870
their national symbol or something but

741
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:28,480
from a practical standpoint I think it's

742
00:33:32,790 --> 00:33:30,610
a warning about where that thruster is

743
00:33:36,150 --> 00:33:32,800
because it did radiate the ground for

744
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:36,160
one day there was fog film and we did

745
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:38,890
show a clip from Ray's video that he

746
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:40,810
gave us permission to show where Hynek

747
00:33:45,210 --> 00:33:42,850
says the film was indeed fogged and

748
00:33:46,740 --> 00:33:45,220
that's why they didn't return it to Ted

749
00:33:48,750 --> 00:33:46,750
Jordan after he took the pictures with

750
00:33:50,780 --> 00:33:48,760
his polaroid and then the next day there

751
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:50,790
was no radiation so you're talking about

752
00:33:55,010 --> 00:33:52,960
unusual right really activity with a

753
00:33:57,900 --> 00:33:55,020
very short half-life and I don't know

754
00:33:59,850 --> 00:33:57,910
much radioactivity that would behave

755
00:34:03,660 --> 00:33:59,860
like that fog film one day and the next

756
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:03,670
day have nothing at all there now ray

757
00:34:09,720 --> 00:34:06,730
often is listening to the show and he's

758
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:09,730
probably listening this evening I don't

759
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:10,690
know if you've spoken to him recently

760
00:34:17,659 --> 00:34:13,570
but I would guess that he's probably

761
00:34:20,940 --> 00:34:17,669
listening but already hey ray

762
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:20,950
the visit that I had down there I saw

763
00:34:26,430 --> 00:34:23,169
and I believe was something like 120

764
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:26,440
days later after the incident he went to

765
00:34:31,830 --> 00:34:28,330
the dynamite Shack the area the landing

766
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:31,840
area and for perspective he had a friend

767
00:34:39,090 --> 00:34:34,169
that was with him stand near the

768
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:39,100
dynamite Shack and took a picture so he

769
00:34:44,970 --> 00:34:42,010
was looking through these the different

770
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:44,980
Socorro pictures just I don't know what

771
00:34:50,129 --> 00:34:46,330
a couple years ago or something like

772
00:34:55,950 --> 00:34:50,139
that and I was oh and something caught

773
00:34:57,690 --> 00:34:55,960
his eye and he blew up in the picture he

774
00:35:01,710 --> 00:34:57,700
never noticed it before but blew up in

775
00:35:07,380 --> 00:35:01,720
the picture and I saw this with my own

776
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:07,390
eyes it really looks like exactly what

777
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:09,010
people were saying the crack I mean

778
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:10,930
Lonnie Zamora said the craft looked like

779
00:35:16,380 --> 00:35:14,770
in the air above the dynamite Shack over

780
00:35:19,090 --> 00:35:16,390
you know in the distance

781
00:35:21,250 --> 00:35:19,100
I'm sure you saw this picture I wanted

782
00:35:22,870 --> 00:35:21,260
to get your thoughts oh we've seen this

783
00:35:26,530 --> 00:35:22,880
picture many times and we're not allowed

784
00:35:28,060 --> 00:35:26,540
to be excited about anymore ray

785
00:35:31,180 --> 00:35:28,070
downplayed it the last time he was

786
00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:31,190
interviewed but he's gonna kill me for

787
00:35:34,870 --> 00:35:33,350
saying this but ray we are just excited

788
00:35:37,740 --> 00:35:34,880
as you are about and we understand why

789
00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:37,750
you're downplaying it but he is

790
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:40,160
ridiculous yeah he is you know he's so

791
00:35:45,250 --> 00:35:41,690
careful before you know Ray's

792
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:45,260
credibility is very important and he

793
00:35:50,380 --> 00:35:47,450
wants to make sure that it is in fact

794
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:50,390
you know what it appears to be before he

795
00:35:54,370 --> 00:35:52,730
releases it and before he gets too

796
00:35:55,930 --> 00:35:54,380
excited about it or before he lets us

797
00:35:57,430 --> 00:35:55,940
get too excited about it

798
00:36:00,790 --> 00:35:57,440
even though he'll probably tell you that

799
00:36:02,110 --> 00:36:00,800
we're too excited about it already but I

800
00:36:03,610 --> 00:36:02,120
understand why he's doing that because

801
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:03,620
he wants to make sure that you know when

802
00:36:07,930 --> 00:36:05,090
he gets the negative and compares it to

803
00:36:09,250 --> 00:36:07,940
the print that there's no aberrations or

804
00:36:12,490 --> 00:36:09,260
smudges or anything that it could

805
00:36:14,860 --> 00:36:12,500
possibly be because he had another

806
00:36:16,420 --> 00:36:14,870
photograph that you know was suspected

807
00:36:19,090 --> 00:36:16,430
to be something interesting and it

808
00:36:21,940 --> 00:36:19,100
turned out to be just a strange artifact

809
00:36:24,010 --> 00:36:21,950
of a processing of the of the film and

810
00:36:26,110 --> 00:36:24,020
the print and all this but the very

811
00:36:27,550 --> 00:36:26,120
distinctive and you saw this what was

812
00:36:29,650 --> 00:36:27,560
very distinctive about this photo is

813
00:36:31,630 --> 00:36:29,660
that the object in the sky looks very

814
00:36:35,110 --> 00:36:31,640
reminiscent to a lawn you described and

815
00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:35,120
it had legs coming off of it right and

816
00:36:38,650 --> 00:36:37,280
and then the disc and and it was like

817
00:36:42,370 --> 00:36:38,660
shaped I mean it's exactly the way

818
00:36:44,500 --> 00:36:42,380
tilted it wasn't like exactly it was it

819
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:44,510
could fly aerodynamic right it was

820
00:36:49,060 --> 00:36:46,250
tilted just like Lyon mentioned it was

821
00:36:50,650 --> 00:36:49,070
tilted on the ground so and also in the

822
00:36:52,510 --> 00:36:50,660
distance or there's other objects that

823
00:36:54,340 --> 00:36:52,520
are further out so so the the object

824
00:36:57,820 --> 00:36:54,350
with the legs down is about a half a

825
00:36:59,050 --> 00:36:57,830
mile away and then the other objects are

826
00:37:01,960 --> 00:36:59,060
you know about two miles you know

827
00:37:03,820 --> 00:37:01,970
further away but yeah I mean it's an

828
00:37:06,580 --> 00:37:03,830
amazing photograph I look forward to the

829
00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:06,590
day when ray can say that conclusively

830
00:37:09,850 --> 00:37:08,960
that you know it is what it is and we

831
00:37:11,950 --> 00:37:09,860
can talk about it again

832
00:37:14,260 --> 00:37:11,960
as a matter of fact it was your podcast

833
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:14,270
radio show when he first I think talked

834
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:16,240
about it right I think so

835
00:37:22,180 --> 00:37:20,090
yeah that's what he did on naps yeah

836
00:37:26,660 --> 00:37:22,190
George Knapp show too but that was when

837
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:26,670
the the blog went bananas and

838
00:37:30,770 --> 00:37:28,650
Ben was Ben was fighting with people for

839
00:37:32,210 --> 00:37:30,780
like months about it and I kind of wish

840
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:32,220
that it was never mentioned because it

841
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:36,330
wasn't something we could just yeah

842
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:38,010
please don't hate us we're just doing

843
00:37:45,230 --> 00:37:41,490
the best we can I mean the picture

844
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:45,240
itself is a confirmation to me that

845
00:37:49,070 --> 00:37:47,010
ronnie was incredibly accurate because

846
00:37:51,890 --> 00:37:49,080
his description is right on that's about

847
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:51,900
probably 12 feet long egg shaped you can

848
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:54,240
see several of the struts coming out off

849
00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:56,490
of it I don't think that's an artifact

850
00:38:01,400 --> 00:37:58,320
and it's only 0.6 miles from the camera

851
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:01,410
but it if that's really is an object in

852
00:38:05,630 --> 00:38:03,690
the sky then Lonnie was very accurate

853
00:38:07,970 --> 00:38:05,640
the event probably happened exactly like

854
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:07,980
you said it did because he was a pretty

855
00:38:11,330 --> 00:38:09,930
upstanding guy he thought that you know

856
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:11,340
I think he talked to his priest right

857
00:38:15,710 --> 00:38:13,490
after he thought it was demonic and

858
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:15,720
Chavez was convinced that as a black

859
00:38:19,610 --> 00:38:17,610
project both of which it didn't turn out

860
00:38:22,670 --> 00:38:19,620
to be but you know it's just

861
00:38:24,710 --> 00:38:22,680
confirmation kind of a lucky thing and

862
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:24,720
and if he did capture that in the

863
00:38:28,250 --> 00:38:26,250
background it's just like the police

864
00:38:30,620 --> 00:38:28,260
officers said the things were flying

865
00:38:33,290 --> 00:38:30,630
around all the time and this time frame

866
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:33,300
and what's interesting is the the place

867
00:38:37,820 --> 00:38:35,250
had disappeared up into the perlite

868
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:37,830
Mills and the mountains up there that

869
00:38:42,290 --> 00:38:39,570
area is owned by the army it's

870
00:38:44,300 --> 00:38:42,300
off-limits it's not talked about but

871
00:38:45,860 --> 00:38:44,310
there's a gate around that whole area

872
00:38:47,810 --> 00:38:45,870
you cannot get in the air but that's

873
00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:47,820
somebody that actually I think worked

874
00:38:52,610 --> 00:38:50,160
out there right we met somebody in

875
00:38:54,470 --> 00:38:52,620
Florida that ran into Lonnie and the guy

876
00:38:57,170 --> 00:38:54,480
was a radiation expert and Lonnie was

877
00:38:59,150 --> 00:38:57,180
asking him if he possibly could have

878
00:39:01,700 --> 00:38:59,160
caught radiation this is well after the

879
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:01,710
event and so the gentleman you know

880
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:03,210
heard the story for the first time

881
00:39:06,740 --> 00:39:04,800
figured out the direction that thing

882
00:39:09,590 --> 00:39:06,750
went drove up in the mountains because

883
00:39:12,050 --> 00:39:09,600
he worked at white sands and and got

884
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:12,060
denied when he ran into a gate and turns

885
00:39:17,330 --> 00:39:14,010
out that whole area up there is

886
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:17,340
off-limits to anybody but the military

887
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:19,530
gee that almost makes you one I don't

888
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:21,210
know how this thing could possibly be

889
00:39:27,140 --> 00:39:25,170
military in 1964 you know it just

890
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:27,150
doesn't make any sense but it makes you

891
00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:30,930
wonder being that close to a base you

892
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:32,880
know especially a one-off you know I

893
00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:36,330
mean well-protected base like that well

894
00:39:40,070 --> 00:39:38,730
maybe if they were landing and coming

895
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:40,080
out of that area maybe

896
00:39:44,630 --> 00:39:41,730
found something really interesting and

897
00:39:47,060 --> 00:39:44,640
decided to grab the whole area and

898
00:39:49,220 --> 00:39:47,070
explore why they may have been using

899
00:39:52,370 --> 00:39:49,230
that as a base that's just speculation

900
00:39:54,980 --> 00:39:52,380
on my part but there might be something

901
00:39:56,930 --> 00:39:54,990
unusual up there you never know there is

902
00:39:59,390 --> 00:39:56,940
uranium in that area I don't know if

903
00:40:01,130 --> 00:39:59,400
there was a big pocket up there but they

904
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:01,140
were there for some kind of reason so

905
00:40:04,070 --> 00:40:03,210
maybe they're one of the reasons is up

906
00:40:06,770 --> 00:40:04,080
in those mountains

907
00:40:09,740 --> 00:40:06,780
I always makes me wonder about hot spots

908
00:40:13,310 --> 00:40:09,750
you hear about hot spots and what makes

909
00:40:16,130 --> 00:40:13,320
a UFO show up at the same place you know

910
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:16,140
multiple times it's like a huge possibly

911
00:40:21,500 --> 00:40:19,410
ninth parallel ya know there's that

912
00:40:24,530 --> 00:40:21,510
swath of land that goes around the

913
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:24,540
planet that seems to it's a certain

914
00:40:28,340 --> 00:40:26,400
longitude and latitude that seems to

915
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:28,350
chug the cup you wrote a book on them

916
00:40:32,180 --> 00:40:30,510
yeah it seems to be a lot of activity

917
00:40:34,210 --> 00:40:32,190
within that band i'ma know if there's a

918
00:40:37,460 --> 00:40:34,220
lot of ley lines there or magnetic

919
00:40:39,850 --> 00:40:37,470
faults or whatever but you know there

920
00:40:42,620 --> 00:40:39,860
are areas that seem to be attractors and

921
00:40:45,230 --> 00:40:42,630
what kills me is when we get cases where

922
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:45,240
people go this shows up all the time and

923
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:47,130
they're not filming it using a cell

924
00:40:51,710 --> 00:40:49,650
phone to take pictures like come on man

925
00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:51,720
you got for me to really want to come

926
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:53,910
out there and look at this thing closely

927
00:40:57,020 --> 00:40:55,410
you got to send me some film that

928
00:40:59,240 --> 00:40:57,030
reminds me of a quick segue if you don't

929
00:41:01,520 --> 00:40:59,250
mind we recently ran into our friend

930
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:01,530
Chris Bledsoe senior in North Carolina

931
00:41:04,340 --> 00:41:02,850
he showed us some really interesting

932
00:41:06,380 --> 00:41:04,350
photographs he took on his cell phone

933
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:06,390
and like Ben just said he's one of those

934
00:41:09,980 --> 00:41:08,250
folks that are saying these things are

935
00:41:11,690 --> 00:41:09,990
happening all the time and his property

936
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:11,700
so we're gonna make plans hopefully soon

937
00:41:15,380 --> 00:41:14,850
to investigate that area and see what we

938
00:41:19,100 --> 00:41:15,390
can find

939
00:41:25,130 --> 00:41:19,110
Oh interesting how far away are you from

940
00:41:28,070 --> 00:41:25,140
from bludso five hours by that's not a

941
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:28,080
short trip yeah so anybody want to help

942
00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:30,000
us out we do have a donate button on our

943
00:41:35,390 --> 00:41:32,700
website for PayPal pay for some or gas

944
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:35,400
we pass Chapel Hill on the way so it's a

945
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:37,770
haul Wow Wow

946
00:41:41,210 --> 00:41:39,570
you know the picture we're not supposed

947
00:41:44,860 --> 00:41:41,220
to talk about I just want to talk about

948
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:44,870
a little bit of the shellman be renamed

949
00:41:50,650 --> 00:41:48,770
that I I was at Bray's for two days and

950
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:50,660
saw some incredible things but I got to

951
00:41:56,130 --> 00:41:53,210
tell you of all the things that I saw at

952
00:41:57,820 --> 00:41:56,140
his house that blew me away oh

953
00:42:01,030 --> 00:41:57,830
absolutely

954
00:42:03,370 --> 00:42:01,040
it's the coup de Gras of that case I

955
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:03,380
mean it's just amazing but his foot his

956
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:05,090
footage that we haven't seen we've seen

957
00:42:09,550 --> 00:42:06,890
the PowerPoint from the airplane of the

958
00:42:12,670 --> 00:42:09,560
mothership I mean that's just I just

959
00:42:15,580 --> 00:42:12,680
keep wanting to see that footage but I I

960
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:15,590
fear that that old emulsion film is just

961
00:42:20,050 --> 00:42:18,050
you know fading away with time but we

962
00:42:23,350 --> 00:42:20,060
try to watch a couple of old films and

963
00:42:25,930 --> 00:42:23,360
unfortunately due to time the the

964
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:25,940
chemicals must have faded on it and you

965
00:42:29,500 --> 00:42:27,680
know it's it was a something that was a

966
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:29,510
caught in just a few frames it was very

967
00:42:33,690 --> 00:42:31,730
quick and we played it back a few times

968
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:33,700
we bought two different projectors and

969
00:42:37,990 --> 00:42:35,570
unfortunately we just couldn't see

970
00:42:40,060 --> 00:42:38,000
anything and Ray says he might have some

971
00:42:41,770 --> 00:42:40,070
more copies of it but he hasn't had a

972
00:42:44,830 --> 00:42:41,780
chance to find X he's been so busy with

973
00:42:47,140 --> 00:42:44,840
his Godard work right yeah I mean if we

974
00:42:49,270 --> 00:42:47,150
could just digitize everything and that

975
00:42:52,750 --> 00:42:49,280
way you can get a better analysis done

976
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:52,760
on the things he has but you know time

977
00:42:58,990 --> 00:42:55,250
as time keeps going by and I just fear

978
00:43:01,330 --> 00:42:59,000
every day they're fading yeah it's just

979
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:01,340
like old photographs I'm at the age now

980
00:43:05,530 --> 00:43:03,770
when I look at my old photographs from

981
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:05,540
when I was a teenager that don't look

982
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:08,330
like they used to no Mekhi I think time

983
00:43:11,470 --> 00:43:09,890
is going by so fast imagine when I must

984
00:43:13,780 --> 00:43:11,480
be like for Ray you know it's like he's

985
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:13,790
so sharp that he's got memories like

986
00:43:19,870 --> 00:43:16,250
they just happened yesterday I know he's

987
00:43:22,410 --> 00:43:19,880
amazing so one of the things also is in

988
00:43:25,750 --> 00:43:22,420
the chat room and also in the forum

989
00:43:28,570 --> 00:43:25,760
there's a question that's actually aimed

990
00:43:32,140 --> 00:43:28,580
at Ray and that's so wise why is he

991
00:43:34,450 --> 00:43:32,150
waiting to release these pictures yeah

992
00:43:36,970 --> 00:43:34,460
again it's got to do with having time to

993
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:36,980
find the original negative and make sure

994
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:39,770
that what's on that negative is in fact

995
00:43:44,170 --> 00:43:41,570
the same information that's on the print

996
00:43:48,270 --> 00:43:44,180
yeah I do understand that now that was

997
00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:48,280
just I know he's very busy mmm with this

998
00:43:53,380 --> 00:43:51,710
dinosaur tracking thing right now to get

999
00:43:55,390 --> 00:43:53,390
involved in that but that is I just hope

1000
00:43:57,410 --> 00:43:55,400
some day he does have the time to dig in

1001
00:43:58,910 --> 00:43:57,420
there and yeah really soon

1002
00:44:00,650 --> 00:43:58,920
it's at the top of his list I believe in

1003
00:44:03,289 --> 00:44:00,660
the new year come January we're gonna

1004
00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:03,299
get reignited with all the UFO work and

1005
00:44:08,900 --> 00:44:06,089
hopefully make some new discoveries yeah

1006
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:08,910
I'm also in the forum there's a question

1007
00:44:13,490 --> 00:44:11,130
and you sort of talked about rubber so

1008
00:44:15,740 --> 00:44:13,500
who has actually been on this show and

1009
00:44:18,530 --> 00:44:15,750
this person and wanted to know do the

1010
00:44:20,780 --> 00:44:18,540
Bluebook files that were obtained by Rob

1011
00:44:23,210 --> 00:44:20,790
Mercer reveal anything significant about

1012
00:44:24,559 --> 00:44:23,220
the Socorro case I know you touched on

1013
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:24,569
it but was there anything in particular

1014
00:44:30,020 --> 00:44:27,599
that was unknown or anything that came

1015
00:44:32,539 --> 00:44:30,030
out of that well there were a lot of

1016
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:32,549
interesting notes there was some bad

1017
00:44:37,309 --> 00:44:35,730
spelling there were hastily written

1018
00:44:39,859 --> 00:44:37,319
probably while the guy was talking on

1019
00:44:42,890 --> 00:44:39,869
the telephone but the notes did show

1020
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:42,900
they did draw the inverted V with three

1021
00:44:48,349 --> 00:44:45,690
bars in the notes so that's another

1022
00:44:50,299 --> 00:44:48,359
source of that there was speculation

1023
00:44:52,099 --> 00:44:50,309
that would be answered like they were

1024
00:44:53,569 --> 00:44:52,109
saying what about this guy Lonnie and

1025
00:44:56,270 --> 00:44:53,579
then though we found him to be very

1026
00:44:58,460 --> 00:44:56,280
credible witness he would make this up

1027
00:45:00,109 --> 00:44:58,470
in fact he's sorry even spoke about it

1028
00:45:02,980 --> 00:45:00,119
and a lot of just thoughts that people

1029
00:45:05,690 --> 00:45:02,990
were writing down that kind of follow

1030
00:45:09,430 --> 00:45:05,700
the case deeper than what was reported

1031
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:09,440
officially it's more like you know

1032
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:11,970
running notes as people were looking at

1033
00:45:17,180 --> 00:45:14,970
documents and I mean it had the request

1034
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:17,190
from the Joint Chiefs of Staff

1035
00:45:22,730 --> 00:45:20,490
Hynek was also there were some notes of

1036
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:22,740
hynek's in there he was bad for what why

1037
00:45:26,569 --> 00:45:24,930
did the Joint Chiefs of Staff he weren't

1038
00:45:29,809 --> 00:45:26,579
calling up Lonnie and wanting to visit

1039
00:45:32,569 --> 00:45:29,819
Lonnie and it just shows the notes show

1040
00:45:34,670 --> 00:45:32,579
how confused they were there was one

1041
00:45:37,010 --> 00:45:34,680
though can we call it a hoax I think dr.

1042
00:45:39,859 --> 00:45:37,020
Menzel asked that and Hynek was like no

1043
00:45:41,150 --> 00:45:39,869
we can't call it hoax because hoaxes

1044
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:41,160
don't leave holes in the ground and

1045
00:45:46,609 --> 00:45:44,010
radiate film but there were just these

1046
00:45:48,140 --> 00:45:46,619
notes about follow-ups and things they

1047
00:45:49,490 --> 00:45:48,150
were doing and every one of the notes

1048
00:45:51,410 --> 00:45:49,500
came to the conclusion that they didn't

1049
00:45:54,170 --> 00:45:51,420
know what the heck it was it's very

1050
00:45:56,750 --> 00:45:54,180
empty because even Hector was determined

1051
00:45:58,760 --> 00:45:56,760
we do have all the documents that show

1052
00:46:00,049 --> 00:45:58,770
that the White House had inquired that

1053
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:00,059
they've granted him the security

1054
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:03,690
clearance to go into White Sands and all

1055
00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:06,690
these bases and look through hangars but

1056
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:09,510
it's it's more of a running storyline of

1057
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:11,040
how they were look

1058
00:46:15,590 --> 00:46:13,440
things what they found out what they

1059
00:46:18,700 --> 00:46:15,600
what they determined wasn't true or

1060
00:46:21,470 --> 00:46:18,710
wasn't real and and it just gave greater

1061
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:21,480
mystery to it because they never found

1062
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:23,040
the explanation they really wanted to I

1063
00:46:26,300 --> 00:46:24,240
mean if it had been a black project

1064
00:46:28,730 --> 00:46:26,310
trust me they would have announced it

1065
00:46:30,590 --> 00:46:28,740
and closed the books on the case it but

1066
00:46:32,090 --> 00:46:30,600
instead is still an unknown to this very

1067
00:46:35,090 --> 00:46:32,100
day do you think they would have

1068
00:46:37,130 --> 00:46:35,100
actually is kind of one of those almost

1069
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:37,140
on the borderline of national security

1070
00:46:41,710 --> 00:46:40,170
to release that it was a black project

1071
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:41,720
do you think they would have actually

1072
00:46:46,820 --> 00:46:45,450
men look look what they did with Roswell

1073
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:46,830
they came out and said it was a mogul

1074
00:46:50,270 --> 00:46:48,450
below they would have got the long term

1075
00:46:51,350 --> 00:46:50,280
you know for that you know yeah but they

1076
00:46:52,580 --> 00:46:51,360
would have made something I they could

1077
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:52,590
have made something up and just

1078
00:46:57,050 --> 00:46:55,170
dismissed it the the there was no black

1079
00:47:00,110 --> 00:46:57,060
project I mean if they had black

1080
00:47:02,180 --> 00:47:00,120
projects of this capability in 64 we

1081
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:02,190
would certainly be seeing some

1082
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:04,770
documentation of something like that now

1083
00:47:10,220 --> 00:47:07,530
because everything built in 64 we've

1084
00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:10,230
seen you think that by 1964 the Air

1085
00:47:14,930 --> 00:47:12,720
Force would have had their you know

1086
00:47:17,180 --> 00:47:14,940
their their stories ready to go you know

1087
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:17,190
to cut refer ups but not you know think

1088
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:19,170
it got caught him off guard really and

1089
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:21,450
one thing we showed in a presentation we

1090
00:47:27,980 --> 00:47:24,480
added this clip that I found online of

1091
00:47:31,340 --> 00:47:27,990
this kind of bulbous looking craft that

1092
00:47:34,700 --> 00:47:31,350
was made to land on foreign objects this

1093
00:47:37,100 --> 00:47:34,710
is a video from 2010 and it's spewing a

1094
00:47:40,970 --> 00:47:37,110
propellant it lifts off it tilts over

1095
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:40,980
and it blows up and that's in 2010 so if

1096
00:47:44,510 --> 00:47:42,570
we had something in 64 over these

1097
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:44,520
characteristics there is no way we'd be

1098
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:46,650
spending millions of dollars on this

1099
00:47:52,340 --> 00:47:49,890
propellant type asteroid lander that

1100
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:52,350
blew up after getting six feet off the

1101
00:47:59,150 --> 00:47:53,970
ground it just doesn't make any sense

1102
00:48:02,900 --> 00:47:59,160
hmm not very perfected you know there's

1103
00:48:06,350 --> 00:48:02,910
a there's someone in the message board

1104
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:06,360
earlier I mentioned sort of a connection

1105
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:08,370
between the cash Landrum case now that

1106
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:10,410
one in particular I don't know if you

1107
00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:13,760
looked into that deeply or not but that

1108
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:18,960
to me has a real feel of a man-made

1109
00:48:23,930 --> 00:48:22,770
vehicle yeah it was followed by Chinook

1110
00:48:27,140 --> 00:48:23,940
Melek Haluk

1111
00:48:28,820 --> 00:48:27,150
kurz it was a yeah operating well it was

1112
00:48:30,770 --> 00:48:28,830
almost like something we were trying to

1113
00:48:32,270 --> 00:48:30,780
make work and it just wasn't doing and

1114
00:48:34,070 --> 00:48:32,280
then they killed the poor woman is

1115
00:48:36,290 --> 00:48:34,080
obviously leaking radiation for sure

1116
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:36,300
yeah yeah and the fact it was followed

1117
00:48:40,100 --> 00:48:37,890
by helicopters probably they were

1118
00:48:42,410 --> 00:48:40,110
supposed to follow it on some other path

1119
00:48:44,690 --> 00:48:42,420
and got wacky and all of a sudden

1120
00:48:46,670 --> 00:48:44,700
they're chasing it and what's

1121
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:46,680
interesting in cash London is when she

1122
00:48:50,420 --> 00:48:48,330
complained to the Air Force and went out

1123
00:48:52,700 --> 00:48:50,430
there when they were talking to her in a

1124
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:52,710
room there was a big map on the board

1125
00:48:59,540 --> 00:48:56,370
and there was one red pen in exactly the

1126
00:49:02,120 --> 00:48:59,550
location that she saw the craft mmm I

1127
00:49:05,630 --> 00:49:02,130
never heard that part that's true I know

1128
00:49:10,970 --> 00:49:05,640
the case well oh wow I actually had

1129
00:49:13,100 --> 00:49:10,980
Colby on a while ago and also that's

1130
00:49:15,950 --> 00:49:13,110
that's in the archives if anyone's

1131
00:49:18,430 --> 00:49:15,960
listening wants to check that out Colby

1132
00:49:21,140 --> 00:49:18,440
Landrum has it's one of his very few

1133
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:21,150
interviews it's I can't remember what

1134
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:22,770
episode it was it was I think three

1135
00:49:31,010 --> 00:49:26,570
years ago on this upon podcast UFO comm

1136
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:31,020
but you know he was such a young kid you

1137
00:49:35,390 --> 00:49:33,690
know at the time I can't remember how

1138
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:35,400
old he was but he was you know three or

1139
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:36,960
four years old or maybe a little bit

1140
00:49:46,310 --> 00:49:43,040
older than that he does remember it yeah

1141
00:49:48,550 --> 00:49:46,320
anyway pretty young but he remembers you

1142
00:49:51,020 --> 00:49:48,560
know going underneath the dashboard and

1143
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:51,030
you know luckily for him he got out of

1144
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:55,050
there radiation compared to his his aunt

1145
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:57,810
that like you said didn't last too long

1146
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:00,720
afterwards yeah she got it she got it

1147
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:05,760
pretty bad right in the in the forum

1148
00:50:11,260 --> 00:50:07,920
also there's a question and it has it

1149
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:11,270
again to do with the Socorro case and

1150
00:50:16,250 --> 00:50:14,730
the person who wants to know and I was

1151
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:16,260
not aware of this and I've never heard

1152
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:18,720
ray say anything about it but it says

1153
00:50:24,020 --> 00:50:22,410
has raised second rock been analyzed yet

1154
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:24,030
what can you tell us about the

1155
00:50:30,980 --> 00:50:26,970
significance of this rock are you aware

1156
00:50:33,590 --> 00:50:30,990
of another Rock the main The Rock that

1157
00:50:37,010 --> 00:50:33,600
that we've it's it's only one rock and

1158
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:37,020
it had a lot of metal fragments on it

1159
00:50:41,570 --> 00:50:39,450
the the biggest piece of metal which was

1160
00:50:44,030 --> 00:50:41,580
rolled up if we have it we have

1161
00:50:47,420 --> 00:50:44,040
photographs of it and we have that shown

1162
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:47,430
in our presentation that piece of metal

1163
00:50:52,609 --> 00:50:50,730
fell off during transfer and it was

1164
00:50:56,780 --> 00:50:52,619
never located but the remaining amount

1165
00:51:00,890 --> 00:50:56,790
of mental Goddard scraped cleanly off to

1166
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:00,900
analyze it and I don't know if many

1167
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:02,130
people listening right now are familiar

1168
00:51:05,930 --> 00:51:04,050
to familiar with that or not but dr.

1169
00:51:07,730 --> 00:51:05,940
Frankel did the annal you know the

1170
00:51:09,290 --> 00:51:07,740
analysis on it and he was really excited

1171
00:51:11,359 --> 00:51:09,300
about what he found because he was

1172
00:51:14,089 --> 00:51:11,369
checking it against the periodic table

1173
00:51:16,730 --> 00:51:14,099
and found an including all the known

1174
00:51:18,410 --> 00:51:16,740
elements including Russia I guess that

1175
00:51:20,780 --> 00:51:18,420
was significant they couldn't really

1176
00:51:23,540 --> 00:51:20,790
determine how the the metals were bound

1177
00:51:25,550 --> 00:51:23,550
it was a zinc iron alloy and we also

1178
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:25,560
showed a clip when Ray is talking to

1179
00:51:29,900 --> 00:51:28,170
Hynek in our presentation where he talks

1180
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:29,910
a little bit more in depth about what

1181
00:51:33,859 --> 00:51:31,890
Frankl discovered but was interesting

1182
00:51:35,450 --> 00:51:33,869
was that dr. Frankel kind of disappeared

1183
00:51:38,060 --> 00:51:35,460
from the whole case after a few days

1184
00:51:42,190 --> 00:51:38,070
that went by and Ray was trying to reach

1185
00:51:44,780 --> 00:51:42,200
out to him and then earlier this year

1186
00:51:46,910 --> 00:51:44,790
Ray's friends with a lot of people at

1187
00:51:49,099 --> 00:51:46,920
Goddard and they know him from his

1188
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:49,109
paleontological work with dinosaur bones

1189
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:51,330
and fossils and they called one guy

1190
00:51:54,740 --> 00:51:52,890
called him up the scientists called him

1191
00:51:56,359 --> 00:51:54,750
up earlier this year and said oh by the

1192
00:52:00,230 --> 00:51:56,369
way did you hear about what happened to

1193
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:00,240
dr. Frankel not knowing that Ray had

1194
00:52:04,849 --> 00:52:03,330
worked with him in the past and Ray was

1195
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:04,859
inquiring about that saying now what

1196
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:06,480
happened to dr. Franklin so it turns out

1197
00:52:11,180 --> 00:52:08,640
he was he was sent to the woodshed for

1198
00:52:13,660 --> 00:52:11,190
working on a UFO rock you know that the

1199
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:13,670
past and so it was interesting

1200
00:52:20,420 --> 00:52:16,170
confirmation that you know gave ray a

1201
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:20,430
little bit of you know I guess more into

1202
00:52:23,839 --> 00:52:22,050
the mystery as to what happened to dr.

1203
00:52:25,430 --> 00:52:23,849
Frankel that he was actually kind of

1204
00:52:28,070 --> 00:52:25,440
blocked you know from the rest of the

1205
00:52:30,079 --> 00:52:28,080
case and so yeah the other part of the

1206
00:52:32,770 --> 00:52:30,089
rock is that there's a crystal that's

1207
00:52:35,300 --> 00:52:32,780
melted a kind of a green crystal that

1208
00:52:37,210 --> 00:52:35,310
doesn't seem to be melted by natural

1209
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:37,220
processes it could have been a factor of

1210
00:52:43,329 --> 00:52:41,010
the heat if the that flame went over

1211
00:52:46,099 --> 00:52:43,339
that rock it might have cooked this

1212
00:52:47,780 --> 00:52:46,109
crystal melted it so there is something

1213
00:52:50,299 --> 00:52:47,790
to look at there you know if it's a

1214
00:52:53,449 --> 00:52:50,309
crystal that requires 2,000 degrees

1215
00:52:55,789 --> 00:52:53,459
to be liquefied then there might still

1216
00:52:58,549 --> 00:52:55,799
be some type of evidence on the rock as

1217
00:53:00,979 --> 00:52:58,559
to this propulsions capabilities and Rey

1218
00:53:02,900 --> 00:53:00,989
fully intends to have it analyzed but as

1219
00:53:03,709 --> 00:53:02,910
you can imagine he won't let it out of

1220
00:53:04,910 --> 00:53:03,719
his sight

1221
00:53:06,949 --> 00:53:04,920
you know it's not something that you can

1222
00:53:09,979 --> 00:53:06,959
ship off or send away because it

1223
00:53:13,309 --> 00:53:09,989
probably will never come back so he

1224
00:53:15,469 --> 00:53:13,319
found some someplace in another state we

1225
00:53:17,569 --> 00:53:15,479
can't say where that will actually do

1226
00:53:19,309 --> 00:53:17,579
this work in front of him and it's a

1227
00:53:21,319 --> 00:53:19,319
place that he trusts and it's just a

1228
00:53:22,999 --> 00:53:21,329
matter of you know getting the money

1229
00:53:27,289 --> 00:53:23,009
together and getting out there and

1230
00:53:31,039 --> 00:53:27,299
getting it done right right Wow and also

1231
00:53:35,209 --> 00:53:31,049
the heat of the flame set a creosote

1232
00:53:38,179 --> 00:53:35,219
bush on fire as well at least one bush

1233
00:53:42,229 --> 00:53:38,189
right it sliced it in half it takes I

1234
00:53:44,660 --> 00:53:42,239
think a couple of thousand degrees to to

1235
00:53:46,549 --> 00:53:44,670
do that in that time frame it just like

1236
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:46,559
the vitrified sand that may or may not

1237
00:53:51,859 --> 00:53:48,930
have been there sand vitrify is I think

1238
00:53:54,559 --> 00:53:51,869
2,200 degrees but the crea side bush

1239
00:53:56,660 --> 00:53:54,569
those things you know they don't they're

1240
00:53:59,359 --> 00:53:56,670
not easy to burn and the the one that is

1241
00:54:03,679 --> 00:53:59,369
in the famous picture was sliced in half

1242
00:54:07,309 --> 00:54:03,689
as that craft moved over the I think

1243
00:54:09,529 --> 00:54:07,319
this garage is smoldering you know it

1244
00:54:11,959 --> 00:54:09,539
wasn't like it wasn't like in flames

1245
00:54:15,169 --> 00:54:11,969
I wasn't like flaming when when they

1246
00:54:16,849 --> 00:54:15,179
came upon it when when Ted Jordan and

1247
00:54:20,599 --> 00:54:16,859
and in Lonnie and all the more yellow

1248
00:54:23,870 --> 00:54:20,609
still smoking so it was it was hot but

1249
00:54:25,669 --> 00:54:23,880
not hot to the touch it just flew over I

1250
00:54:27,289 --> 00:54:25,679
was able to do that like an acetylene

1251
00:54:29,179 --> 00:54:27,299
torch that tells you there was an

1252
00:54:32,059 --> 00:54:29,189
incredible amount of heat generated by

1253
00:54:34,039 --> 00:54:32,069
whatever that was that first form

1254
00:54:36,079 --> 00:54:34,049
function was because when the craft

1255
00:54:38,989 --> 00:54:36,089
lifted up and went silent the blue flame

1256
00:54:41,059 --> 00:54:38,999
was not coming out anymore and it flew

1257
00:54:42,739 --> 00:54:41,069
off silence so once again that's one

1258
00:54:45,380 --> 00:54:42,749
engine that Lange and you and bring you

1259
00:54:47,689 --> 00:54:45,390
up the two wars and another engine to

1260
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:47,699
operate maybe in the upper atmosphere or

1261
00:54:55,099 --> 00:54:50,640
outside of the atmosphere yeah now I

1262
00:54:57,229 --> 00:54:55,109
want to talk about the regalia I can't

1263
00:54:58,339 --> 00:54:57,239
remember how you say his name Anthony

1264
00:55:01,039 --> 00:54:58,349
bergoglio yeah

1265
00:55:02,900 --> 00:55:01,049
and how he says this whole thing was

1266
00:55:05,359 --> 00:55:02,910
hoax and he exposed

1267
00:55:08,660 --> 00:55:05,369
and it was a college prank and all that

1268
00:55:12,140 --> 00:55:08,670
I mean not that is so far from what

1269
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:12,150
happened did me save like there was a

1270
00:55:19,819 --> 00:55:17,130
screen film screen put out in like a

1271
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:19,829
video or something I mean it's just such

1272
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:21,210
a bizarre story

1273
00:55:26,420 --> 00:55:24,000
yeah that's Beth bananas um if anybody's

1274
00:55:28,339 --> 00:55:26,430
ever been out there which you'll notice

1275
00:55:30,859 --> 00:55:28,349
first of all is that there's no easy way

1276
00:55:33,829 --> 00:55:30,869
to get to that spot and there were no

1277
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:33,839
footprints anywhere if they were using a

1278
00:55:40,609 --> 00:55:37,890
balloon it would take a lot of people to

1279
00:55:42,859 --> 00:55:40,619
stabilize it and then to release it in a

1280
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:42,869
40 mile an hour wind that was that this

1281
00:55:45,980 --> 00:55:44,730
craft went against well the balloon

1282
00:55:47,690 --> 00:55:45,990
would have gone in the other direction

1283
00:55:49,819 --> 00:55:47,700
there's no way that a balloon that large

1284
00:55:52,670 --> 00:55:49,829
is gonna fly against the 40 mile an hour

1285
00:55:54,170 --> 00:55:52,680
gust of wind and there'd be footprints

1286
00:55:55,609 --> 00:55:54,180
everywhere and there's just no way of

1287
00:55:58,400 --> 00:55:55,619
knowing when Lonnie was gonna be there

1288
00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:58,410
anyway he was on random Patrol the only

1289
00:56:01,309 --> 00:56:00,240
footprints were the two prints near when

1290
00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:01,319
the craft

1291
00:56:05,210 --> 00:56:02,910
ladder would come down or something but

1292
00:56:07,309 --> 00:56:05,220
there's nowhere to hide there there's no

1293
00:56:09,529 --> 00:56:07,319
way there's absolutely no way it could

1294
00:56:12,109 --> 00:56:09,539
have been students that was just a guess

1295
00:56:14,210 --> 00:56:12,119
on his part the whole student thing is

1296
00:56:16,730 --> 00:56:14,220
can be easily disproved by the fact that

1297
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:16,740
you had probably 11 witnesses and all

1298
00:56:21,980 --> 00:56:19,170
that heard the noise you had the three

1299
00:56:23,690 --> 00:56:21,990
witnesses before Lonnie's event started

1300
00:56:26,180 --> 00:56:23,700
that reported the blue flame heading

1301
00:56:28,809 --> 00:56:26,190
towards Socorro you had the two brothers

1302
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:28,819
driving down the road that saw its exit

1303
00:56:32,870 --> 00:56:31,200
there's just you would have to have

1304
00:56:34,339 --> 00:56:32,880
coordinated such a thing and then you'd

1305
00:56:36,349 --> 00:56:34,349
have to fly off into the wind and

1306
00:56:39,499 --> 00:56:36,359
radiate the film it's just no way that

1307
00:56:41,779 --> 00:56:39,509
the hoax theory is dead in the water

1308
00:56:43,700 --> 00:56:41,789
because the evidence shows that there's

1309
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:43,710
absolutely no way you could have host

1310
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:46,250
this thing well not only that

1311
00:56:52,609 --> 00:56:49,490
Socorro is not like a big metropolitan

1312
00:56:56,180 --> 00:56:52,619
area either it's such a it's kind of

1313
00:56:57,890 --> 00:56:56,190
like a small town isn't it am I getting

1314
00:56:59,359 --> 00:56:57,900
that right oh it's a small town I'll

1315
00:57:01,880 --> 00:56:59,369
tell you what they got the best burgers

1316
00:57:06,170 --> 00:57:01,890
and steaks they've ever had a bodega

1317
00:57:07,970 --> 00:57:06,180
burger there's a plug for you one of the

1318
00:57:09,620 --> 00:57:07,980
things about the SoCo host was they're

1319
00:57:11,030 --> 00:57:09,630
trying to draw tourists they were gonna

1320
00:57:13,340 --> 00:57:11,040
make this site and

1321
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:13,350
none of that is true this road still on

1322
00:57:17,780 --> 00:57:15,690
pave there's the lines of more Memorial

1323
00:57:19,550 --> 00:57:17,790
which we had to brush to pull the it's

1324
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:19,560
covered in tumble tumble weeds away just

1325
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:24,000
a photograph like a stone it's on your

1326
00:57:28,610 --> 00:57:25,680
mitts like a call it's like a water

1327
00:57:32,270 --> 00:57:28,620
return so I got some mint kind of yeah

1328
00:57:34,540 --> 00:57:32,280
like a damn looking somebody painted on

1329
00:57:37,070 --> 00:57:34,550
it with and put the dates of the famous

1330
00:57:38,930 --> 00:57:37,080
incident I mean it's a tribute to him

1331
00:57:40,580 --> 00:57:38,940
but it's certainly not a tourist

1332
00:57:41,990 --> 00:57:40,590
attraction because you can if you didn't

1333
00:57:43,730 --> 00:57:42,000
know where was leave it takes tours to

1334
00:57:46,010 --> 00:57:43,740
have a tourist attraction yeah they're

1335
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:46,020
not there weren't any tourists we were

1336
00:57:49,310 --> 00:57:47,490
the only tourists we got a hold of

1337
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:49,320
editor if they'll be a fencer chieftain

1338
00:57:56,150 --> 00:57:53,730
and he even owner of the land gave him

1339
00:57:58,970 --> 00:57:56,160
permission to bring us to the site it

1340
00:58:00,470 --> 00:57:58,980
took them 35 40 minutes to find the site

1341
00:58:03,110 --> 00:58:00,480
he finally had to get out when we passed

1342
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:03,120
it twice yeah there was just no way we

1343
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:04,770
we wouldn't have found it if we didn't

1344
00:58:09,620 --> 00:58:07,050
have him with us you know a little been

1345
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:09,630
trespassing the dynamite track I assume

1346
00:58:14,300 --> 00:58:12,450
is long gone long gone yeah we took

1347
00:58:16,670 --> 00:58:14,310
pictures I did a panoramic of the whole

1348
00:58:20,450 --> 00:58:16,680
area where we parked our car right where

1349
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:20,460
Lonnie's car was and we it is the

1350
00:58:24,590 --> 00:58:22,290
interesting thing it is a little bold

1351
00:58:26,690 --> 00:58:24,600
depression there so if you wanted to

1352
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:26,700
land not be seen from the ridge line

1353
00:58:30,770 --> 00:58:28,770
which is far away that was a good place

1354
00:58:34,790 --> 00:58:30,780
to do it because it was only flat area

1355
00:58:37,010 --> 00:58:34,800
around there and but again with the hoax

1356
00:58:39,830 --> 00:58:37,020
theory there's just nowhere to hide

1357
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:39,840
you'd have to run about a quarter of a

1358
00:58:44,150 --> 00:58:42,450
mile in any direction before you can get

1359
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:44,160
over this crest that would have hide

1360
00:58:49,370 --> 00:58:48,000
that site from you well before let's

1361
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:49,380
just say before I forget the listeners

1362
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:50,730
if they want to read a little bit about

1363
00:58:53,810 --> 00:58:52,290
it we have a link on our website that

1364
00:58:56,660 --> 00:58:53,820
says socorro right on the front page of

1365
00:59:01,960 --> 00:58:56,670
MUFON VA and also a link to Ray's book

1366
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:01,970
on there so there's a depression and

1367
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:07,530
also I'm sure that bronchial however I

1368
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:09,930
can't say his name right I'm sure Lea he

1369
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:12,090
never really visited the site himself

1370
00:59:16,850 --> 00:59:14,130
probably not I don't but nobody ever

1371
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:16,860
investigated this when we were there the

1372
00:59:21,020 --> 00:59:18,480
guy said they were two gentlemen that

1373
00:59:23,269 --> 00:59:21,030
claimed they were the students and so I

1374
00:59:25,009 --> 00:59:23,279
immediately said well where are they

1375
00:59:26,719 --> 00:59:25,019
we'll interview him well once in the

1376
00:59:29,049 --> 00:59:26,729
hospital he won't talk to you the elbe

1377
00:59:31,279 --> 00:59:29,059
moved out of town it was just two guys

1378
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:31,289
trying to get their 15 minutes of fame

1379
00:59:37,399 --> 00:59:34,650
babe that whole story is so ludicrous if

1380
00:59:39,709 --> 00:59:37,409
you actually went to the site and and

1381
00:59:41,749 --> 00:59:39,719
looked around and read all the newspaper

1382
00:59:44,599 --> 00:59:41,759
articles and everything you realize that

1383
00:59:48,229 --> 00:59:44,609
there is just no way that that is even

1384
00:59:50,089 --> 00:59:48,239
possible the multiple witnesses kind of

1385
00:59:52,459 --> 00:59:50,099
you know there's a time line and the guy

1386
00:59:55,579 --> 00:59:52,469
that visited opal grinder station that

1387
00:59:57,679 --> 00:59:55,589
saw the thing almost hit his car and

1388
00:59:59,539 --> 00:59:57,689
then he saw as a family of five yeah I

1389
01:00:01,189 --> 00:59:59,549
saw a lot of going like that mm-hmm

1390
01:00:02,479 --> 01:00:01,199
I mean how would they have known that

1391
01:00:04,699 --> 01:00:02,489
all these people were gonna witness that

1392
01:00:06,229 --> 01:00:04,709
so alley Mike talking about it because

1393
01:00:08,929 --> 01:00:06,239
it's so stupid it doesn't make any sense

1394
01:00:10,819 --> 01:00:08,939
it's just it's like with with Roswell

1395
01:00:12,229 --> 01:00:10,829
people though that was a brother balloon

1396
01:00:14,329 --> 01:00:12,239
you know but that's all they remember

1397
01:00:15,890 --> 01:00:14,339
well I'll tell you why I brought it up I

1398
01:00:18,620 --> 01:00:15,900
brought okay because if anyone is

1399
01:00:21,499 --> 01:00:18,630
searching this the coral case they're

1400
01:00:25,309 --> 01:00:21,509
gonna find this you know that it's a

1401
01:00:29,539 --> 01:00:25,319
hoax and I just wanted to get the word

1402
01:00:31,609 --> 01:00:29,549
out there that that is an absurd absurd

1403
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:31,619
thing and not to pay attention to it

1404
01:00:37,759 --> 01:00:33,119
really yeah they really need to do their

1405
01:00:39,380 --> 01:00:37,769
homework and buy our DVD diction we've

1406
01:00:40,999 --> 01:00:39,390
got all the evidence there I mean that

1407
01:00:42,769 --> 01:00:41,009
we did two years on it ray did a

1408
01:00:44,209 --> 01:00:42,779
lifetime on it yeah Ray's been doing

1409
01:00:46,809 --> 01:00:44,219
this forever let's not forget that this

1410
01:00:50,569 --> 01:00:46,819
is one of the seven hundred and one yeah

1411
01:00:53,749 --> 01:00:50,579
Project Blue Book unsolved cases right

1412
01:00:56,949 --> 01:00:53,759
to this day and that question I think is

1413
01:00:59,630 --> 01:00:56,959
a fitting question on the forum as well

1414
01:01:02,689 --> 01:00:59,640
do you feel the weight of the evidence

1415
01:01:06,049 --> 01:01:02,699
on the Socorro case affected J Allen

1416
01:01:08,269 --> 01:01:06,059
Hynek personally or that it may have

1417
01:01:09,999 --> 01:01:08,279
been violence a change of opinion on his

1418
01:01:12,289 --> 01:01:10,009
part of the subject of UFOs

1419
01:01:14,239 --> 01:01:12,299
yeah jail in hiding this was the case

1420
01:01:16,939 --> 01:01:14,249
that pushed him over the edge that that

1421
01:01:22,009 --> 01:01:16,949
made him change his mind about swamp gas

1422
01:01:24,199 --> 01:01:22,019
excuses it was it was so moving for him

1423
01:01:27,079 --> 01:01:24,209
especially Lonnie with Zamora as a

1424
01:01:29,179 --> 01:01:27,089
witness Jay Allen Hynek was always

1425
01:01:31,370 --> 01:01:29,189
saying what what a credible witness

1426
01:01:33,559 --> 01:01:31,380
Lonnie was and how honest he was and

1427
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:33,569
yeah this case in particular was the one

1428
01:01:37,660 --> 01:01:35,810
that the that changed his mind about

1429
01:01:39,190 --> 01:01:37,670
ufology and sent him in a different

1430
01:01:40,780 --> 01:01:39,200
direction yeah you form Koufos

1431
01:01:42,820 --> 01:01:40,790
afterwards there were a couple of cases

1432
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:42,830
that that helped but you know this was

1433
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:44,330
one of the most evidential Close

1434
01:01:48,610 --> 01:01:47,210
Encounters of the Third Kind and in the

1435
01:01:51,430 --> 01:01:48,620
notes Hynek you can tell he's really

1436
01:01:54,310 --> 01:01:51,440
baffled and even in hectic when Tania's

1437
01:01:58,540 --> 01:01:54,320
book that had a project Bluebook he just

1438
01:02:00,370 --> 01:01:58,550
you could just feel his frustration and

1439
01:02:02,290 --> 01:02:00,380
not being able to solve the case and he

1440
01:02:05,410 --> 01:02:02,300
had access to everything he had he had

1441
01:02:07,690 --> 01:02:05,420
top-secret clearance and the FBI CIA and

1442
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:07,700
the White House all wanted an answer so

1443
01:02:11,890 --> 01:02:09,650
there's no way that all the other

1444
01:02:15,550 --> 01:02:11,900
agencies even the black project agencies

1445
01:02:17,590 --> 01:02:15,560
could not not answer their requests so

1446
01:02:19,300 --> 01:02:17,600
when when Hector went to a base he was

1447
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:19,310
allowed to walk anywhere he wanted to

1448
01:02:23,740 --> 01:02:21,170
and he was sure he's gonna find this

1449
01:02:26,620 --> 01:02:23,750
thing in the hangar somewhere the the

1450
01:02:29,050 --> 01:02:26,630
only conclusion we could come to is if

1451
01:02:31,510 --> 01:02:29,060
nobody on earth admits to making that

1452
01:02:34,930 --> 01:02:31,520
vehicle having that capability having

1453
01:02:37,390 --> 01:02:34,940
midgets fly it and had to answer the

1454
01:02:40,810 --> 01:02:37,400
White House for these investigations

1455
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:40,820
then it's not man-made so it's not

1456
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:43,130
man-made what is it well no way to know

1457
01:02:47,530 --> 01:02:46,130
about that an easy answer is et but you

1458
01:02:50,830 --> 01:02:47,540
know you could be talking about some

1459
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:50,840
kind of parallel universe or quantum

1460
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:53,090
theory postulates I think it's 26

1461
01:02:58,540 --> 01:02:55,610
universes now or 26 different realities

1462
01:03:00,100 --> 01:02:58,550
it could have been a lot of different

1463
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:00,110
lives Drake equations about a billion

1464
01:03:03,820 --> 01:03:01,730
earth-like planets in our own galaxy

1465
01:03:06,610 --> 01:03:03,830
right now yeah there's two train

1466
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:06,620
galaxies that we know of that just

1467
01:03:12,820 --> 01:03:10,250
expanded you know a it's just to me and

1468
01:03:15,460 --> 01:03:12,830
Tony also the evidence showed that this

1469
01:03:17,470 --> 01:03:15,470
was not a man-made craft didn't behave

1470
01:03:19,330 --> 01:03:17,480
like one didn't have pilots like one

1471
01:03:21,250 --> 01:03:19,340
there were no craft that had the

1472
01:03:23,770 --> 01:03:21,260
capability of being that far off base

1473
01:03:26,490 --> 01:03:23,780
because the bases weren't close white

1474
01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:26,500
sands testing ground was pretty far away

1475
01:03:30,190 --> 01:03:28,880
like I said the lunar lander wasn't even

1476
01:03:31,750 --> 01:03:30,200
flying at the time it's being dropped

1477
01:03:33,430 --> 01:03:31,760
from a cable to test the landing struts

1478
01:03:35,830 --> 01:03:33,440
and the picture of the looming ladder

1479
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:35,840
it's two dudes sitting in a lunar lander

1480
01:03:41,070 --> 01:03:37,730
it's not hard to see what it is it's not

1481
01:03:44,140 --> 01:03:41,080
egg-shaped they're not five feet tall so

1482
01:03:45,730 --> 01:03:44,150
if you really look into the case and get

1483
01:03:47,620 --> 01:03:45,740
past some of the hoax theories and dig

1484
01:03:48,780 --> 01:03:47,630
down what you see is evidence of

1485
01:03:52,950 --> 01:03:48,790
something really

1486
01:03:55,350 --> 01:03:52,960
bizarre and not normal are known to you

1487
01:03:57,540 --> 01:03:55,360
know mankind now there may not so much

1488
01:03:59,370 --> 01:03:57,550
go ahead and right I was just gonna say

1489
01:04:03,000 --> 01:03:59,380
and like been mentioned earlier to this

1490
01:04:05,460 --> 01:04:03,010
day there's nothing that flies like that

1491
01:04:07,050 --> 01:04:05,470
there's nothing that can that can roar

1492
01:04:09,270 --> 01:04:07,060
like that and then goes completely

1493
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:09,280
silent and travel against the wind and

1494
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:12,370
then reach supersonic speeds in a short

1495
01:04:17,910 --> 01:04:15,490
period of time at a strong angle the way

1496
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:17,920
that it did yeah when it goes silent

1497
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:19,690
that's one that can't be explained for

1498
01:04:26,100 --> 01:04:23,290
sure though the lead witness Lonnie

1499
01:04:28,650 --> 01:04:26,110
Zamora I have my own thoughts but I'd

1500
01:04:31,290 --> 01:04:28,660
like for you to express one of you to

1501
01:04:35,310 --> 01:04:31,300
express why was Lonnie such a solid

1502
01:04:38,310 --> 01:04:35,320
witness well Lonnie I mean who knows

1503
01:04:40,140 --> 01:04:38,320
he's a really good guy you know he was

1504
01:04:42,210 --> 01:04:40,150
former military he was in the army he

1505
01:04:45,390 --> 01:04:42,220
was a police officer and he took his job

1506
01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:45,400
very seriously you know he was just a

1507
01:04:50,550 --> 01:04:48,160
down-to-earth guy a family a family man

1508
01:04:52,430 --> 01:04:50,560
he's very honest and you know true to

1509
01:04:55,020 --> 01:04:52,440
his word this is something that rune is

1510
01:04:56,130 --> 01:04:55,030
in a lot of ways in my opinion I mean

1511
01:04:59,220 --> 01:04:56,140
some people might say didn't ruin his

1512
01:05:01,350 --> 01:04:59,230
life but he was being ridiculed ever

1513
01:05:02,730 --> 01:05:01,360
since this event took place little kids

1514
01:05:06,180 --> 01:05:02,740
would tease him on the street people

1515
01:05:08,820 --> 01:05:06,190
would say things to him out there just

1516
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:08,830
kind of kind of just poking him everyday

1517
01:05:11,730 --> 01:05:10,570
to the point where he said you know what

1518
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:11,740
I'm not gonna do this anymore he ended

1519
01:05:16,110 --> 01:05:13,330
up working at a gas station for a little

1520
01:05:18,090 --> 01:05:16,120
bit and then he went to work at the at

1521
01:05:22,350 --> 01:05:18,100
the dump I think for a long time right

1522
01:05:24,810 --> 01:05:22,360
then yeah the thing about Lonnie was he

1523
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:24,820
was a church-going man he didn't he

1524
01:05:31,650 --> 01:05:28,930
rarely drank he was very religious

1525
01:05:34,230 --> 01:05:31,660
he wouldn't know he didn't even think

1526
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:34,240
about UFOs he was sorry he afterwards he

1527
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:36,010
was sorry ever brought it up he said

1528
01:05:38,970 --> 01:05:37,810
he'd if he saw the damn thing again he

1529
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:38,980
would never talk about it

1530
01:05:45,210 --> 01:05:43,050
so as a guy not not prone to fiction

1531
01:05:47,730 --> 01:05:45,220
seeking publicity wasn't seeking

1532
01:05:50,130 --> 01:05:47,740
publicity was a down-to-earth guy was a

1533
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:50,140
you know well-known in community as a

1534
01:05:55,230 --> 01:05:52,570
stand-up guy and even hynix conclusion

1535
01:05:56,310 --> 01:05:55,240
and Quentin Elia said you know he was

1536
01:05:58,950 --> 01:05:56,320
probably one of the most credible

1537
01:06:02,580 --> 01:05:58,960
witnesses we've had because we believe

1538
01:06:05,700 --> 01:06:02,590
that what he says he believes you know

1539
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:05,710
yeah and then you know with the photo

1540
01:06:10,740 --> 01:06:08,410
you you kind of have confirmation that

1541
01:06:14,100 --> 01:06:10,750
what he saw is captured in that photo

1542
01:06:16,530 --> 01:06:14,110
it's just you know it's like just Joe

1543
01:06:19,350 --> 01:06:16,540
Blow on a street honest hard-working guy

1544
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:19,360
sees something extraordinary reports it

1545
01:06:22,890 --> 01:06:21,130
then gets all kinds of grief about it

1546
01:06:24,210 --> 01:06:22,900
and then he's sorry he talked about but

1547
01:06:25,950 --> 01:06:24,220
you know I'm sure he didn't know the

1548
01:06:27,750 --> 01:06:25,960
ramifications of what was gonna happen

1549
01:06:29,250 --> 01:06:27,760
he if he thought through it he probably

1550
01:06:30,390 --> 01:06:29,260
would have kept it to himself you know

1551
01:06:32,070 --> 01:06:30,400
that's kind of a recurrent thing and

1552
01:06:33,750 --> 01:06:32,080
mizzen have been like you know we see

1553
01:06:36,570 --> 01:06:33,760
cases like the Hickson case you know

1554
01:06:38,580 --> 01:06:36,580
same kind of thing you know he reports

1555
01:06:39,990 --> 01:06:38,590
something and it's people started to

1556
01:06:42,570 --> 01:06:40,000
trash him about it he wishes he never

1557
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:42,580
brought it and that kind of solidifies

1558
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:44,050
the fact that a lot of the other

1559
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:46,450
officers said they had seen the thing

1560
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:48,490
before and after this event but they

1561
01:06:52,290 --> 01:06:50,290
said because the way Lonnie's treated we

1562
01:06:54,180 --> 01:06:52,300
would never tell anybody except their

1563
01:06:56,100 --> 01:06:54,190
fellow police officers about they said

1564
01:06:58,290 --> 01:06:56,110
they saw it many times afterwards and

1565
01:07:01,050 --> 01:06:58,300
they said they refused to tell the

1566
01:07:02,340 --> 01:07:01,060
airforce ever again yeah they didn't

1567
01:07:05,550 --> 01:07:02,350
like the way Lonnie was treated they all

1568
01:07:07,230 --> 01:07:05,560
hated the airforce the Bluebook guys the

1569
01:07:08,940 --> 01:07:07,240
military guys they really didn't like

1570
01:07:10,710 --> 01:07:08,950
when all they probably some of them

1571
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:10,720
didn't like ray but he was kind of a

1572
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:12,490
civilian investigator at the time

1573
01:07:17,010 --> 01:07:15,610
working for nycap but it's just one of

1574
01:07:19,310 --> 01:07:17,020
those things where you have incredible

1575
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:19,320
witnessing and incredible thing and

1576
01:07:23,190 --> 01:07:21,610
probably reported it exactly as it

1577
01:07:24,630 --> 01:07:23,200
happened didn't embellish it at all

1578
01:07:26,340 --> 01:07:24,640
never embellished it later in life

1579
01:07:29,490 --> 01:07:26,350
didn't even want to talk about the

1580
01:07:31,350 --> 01:07:29,500
creatures and did very few interviews

1581
01:07:33,210 --> 01:07:31,360
afterwards if the guy was seeking

1582
01:07:35,490 --> 01:07:33,220
publicity he sure did a poor job of

1583
01:07:40,500 --> 01:07:35,500
doing it right you touched on everything

1584
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:40,510
of my thoughts especially the part where

1585
01:07:45,810 --> 01:07:43,330
he was not seeking any type of notoriety

1586
01:07:48,870 --> 01:07:45,820
and and he was scared to that's one

1587
01:07:51,450 --> 01:07:48,880
thing he was it really shook him up this

1588
01:07:53,850 --> 01:07:51,460
whole event yeah yeah this he was like

1589
01:07:55,410 --> 01:07:53,860
why does it ghost when Chavez showed up

1590
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:55,420
he said he looked really physically

1591
01:08:01,140 --> 01:07:57,250
shaking trembling and mm-hmm

1592
01:08:03,540 --> 01:08:01,150
now there is a there is also controversy

1593
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:03,550
about well we want to call him little

1594
01:08:13,020 --> 01:08:05,970
people not midgets but about the small

1595
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:13,030
beings there's controversy whether they

1596
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:15,370
were he mentioned them and that he did

1597
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:16,210
mention them or

1598
01:08:20,070 --> 01:08:18,370
mention him I mean I've heard people say

1599
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:20,080
that but I've always heard the story as

1600
01:08:24,630 --> 01:08:23,170
he saw the two beings well he said he

1601
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:24,640
described his figures he said he saw two

1602
01:08:29,700 --> 01:08:27,489
figures and he described him as they

1603
01:08:31,170 --> 01:08:29,710
were wearing like coveralls yeah he

1604
01:08:32,459 --> 01:08:31,180
never mentioned any facial features

1605
01:08:36,059 --> 01:08:32,469
because he's about he saw them in about

1606
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:36,069
450 feet away so you know as far as

1607
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:38,290
semantics goes he described him as two

1608
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:40,930
figures and wearing white what appear to

1609
01:08:44,249 --> 01:08:42,250
be white coveralls and they were

1610
01:08:46,410 --> 01:08:44,259
standing next to a five-foot Priya side

1611
01:08:48,870 --> 01:08:46,420
Bush and they didn't come up to the top

1612
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:48,880
of the bush 10 year older yeah less than

1613
01:08:55,709 --> 01:08:52,930
five feet tall mmm yeah yeah but yeah

1614
01:08:57,269 --> 01:08:55,719
that's just the added part to this case

1615
01:09:01,890 --> 01:08:57,279
that really makes it even more

1616
01:09:07,470 --> 01:09:01,900
mysterious and and if it is a good one

1617
01:09:10,289 --> 01:09:07,480
and you know this having a witness like

1618
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:10,299
Lonnie is is pretty rare all the way

1619
01:09:16,890 --> 01:09:13,330
through especially you know someone that

1620
01:09:19,349 --> 01:09:16,900
is not on the circuit so to speak and

1621
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:19,359
never was yeah yeah and one thing I can

1622
01:09:25,499 --> 01:09:22,210
add is that as we were investigating we

1623
01:09:27,959 --> 01:09:25,509
did find I think seven other incidents

1624
01:09:30,329 --> 01:09:27,969
in the area in the same time frame of

1625
01:09:34,110 --> 01:09:30,339
egg-shaped craft there was actually a

1626
01:09:37,229 --> 01:09:34,120
Ford of a egg-shaped class with four

1627
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:37,239
landing gear landing on Halloran that

1628
01:09:40,950 --> 01:09:38,770
didn't get a little publicity but I

1629
01:09:42,900 --> 01:09:40,960
found that and in a newspaper article

1630
01:09:45,570 --> 01:09:42,910
and then there was another report of a

1631
01:09:48,870 --> 01:09:45,580
pilot who said he saw the thing in the

1632
01:09:51,329 --> 01:09:48,880
air and he described it had a symbol of

1633
01:09:54,420 --> 01:09:51,339
inverted V with three bars on and this

1634
01:09:56,550 --> 01:09:54,430
was a military pilot really Wow always

1635
01:10:05,790 --> 01:09:56,560
what was a pilot flying a plane or

1636
01:10:08,010 --> 01:10:05,800
helicopter pilot possibly flying his own

1637
01:10:10,979 --> 01:10:08,020
piper or whatever they had the time but

1638
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:10,989
the thing is as we look deeper there are

1639
01:10:16,709 --> 01:10:14,170
some other cases that are similar

1640
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:16,719
reporting a similar craft in that area

1641
01:10:21,570 --> 01:10:18,610
in that time frame at 64 you know had

1642
01:10:24,959 --> 01:10:21,580
credible amount of UFO high end UFO

1643
01:10:27,810 --> 01:10:24,969
cases and there was other events that

1644
01:10:29,790 --> 01:10:27,820
might tie to that event so trying to

1645
01:10:31,319 --> 01:10:29,800
figure out how to plot all this on

1646
01:10:33,780 --> 01:10:31,329
app and they get the time frame right

1647
01:10:36,870 --> 01:10:33,790
and look at these other stories and see

1648
01:10:38,549 --> 01:10:36,880
how viable they are then we can kind of

1649
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:38,559
put together maybe a timeline of where

1650
01:10:41,430 --> 01:10:40,090
those things were going and coming from

1651
01:10:43,319 --> 01:10:41,440
there one of the most amazing things

1652
01:10:45,540 --> 01:10:43,329
about this case Martin is the more we

1653
01:10:47,189 --> 01:10:45,550
dig the more we find even today which is

1654
01:10:49,049 --> 01:10:47,199
just amazing yeah

1655
01:10:51,060 --> 01:10:49,059
sometimes I get feedback where people

1656
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:51,070
say oh you know you do is talk about old

1657
01:10:55,799 --> 01:10:54,010
cases and reaction but I think that you

1658
01:10:58,439 --> 01:10:55,809
know your point you just made Tony I

1659
01:11:02,160 --> 01:10:58,449
think when you dig deep I mean you're

1660
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:02,170
finding articles which is used to do

1661
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:04,210
that through microfiche is it done

1662
01:11:09,870 --> 01:11:08,050
differently now it's all onion well we

1663
01:11:12,359 --> 01:11:09,880
do have some microfiche that we need to

1664
01:11:15,540 --> 01:11:12,369
get converted that we're borrowing from

1665
01:11:16,830 --> 01:11:15,550
somebody and hopefully we're gonna maybe

1666
01:11:18,390 --> 01:11:16,840
be able to dig through that a little bit

1667
01:11:20,790 --> 01:11:18,400
and find some more corroborating

1668
01:11:22,649 --> 01:11:20,800
evidence and well you know we're all

1669
01:11:24,330 --> 01:11:22,659
willing to go back to Socorro hopefully

1670
01:11:26,250 --> 01:11:24,340
in February and do the same thing we did

1671
01:11:28,589 --> 01:11:26,260
last time this is kind of start our trip

1672
01:11:32,850 --> 01:11:28,599
up there and maybe we'll be able to

1673
01:11:34,410 --> 01:11:32,860
interview some people did you attempt to

1674
01:11:37,379 --> 01:11:34,420
do that you didn't have time to do that

1675
01:11:39,030 --> 01:11:37,389
last time no no it was yeah we didn't

1676
01:11:40,890 --> 01:11:39,040
have much time and luckily Ben drove

1677
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:40,900
he's he's a professionally trained

1678
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:44,650
IndyCar racer and he was able to reach

1679
01:11:51,229 --> 01:11:46,449
the speed of light in our rental car as

1680
01:11:52,350 --> 01:11:51,239
it critical mass from Sakura to

1681
01:11:55,799 --> 01:11:52,360
Scottsdale

1682
01:11:58,049 --> 01:11:55,809
I think but 60 west's you know that goes

1683
01:12:01,049 --> 01:11:58,059
through Magdalena and they tall as all

1684
01:12:03,209 --> 01:12:01,059
cities with histories of UFO crashes and

1685
01:12:07,169 --> 01:12:03,219
famous UFO sightings so that whole

1686
01:12:09,870 --> 01:12:07,179
corridor from Socorro out to Arizona is

1687
01:12:11,939 --> 01:12:09,880
full of history as a matter of fact we

1688
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:11,949
have some few peaks that we have made

1689
01:12:16,649 --> 01:12:13,690
some discoveries talking to people

1690
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:16,659
everywhere we stopped and we would ask

1691
01:12:21,959 --> 01:12:18,610
have you guys seen any UFOs around here

1692
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:21,969
and we just show them our our badge our

1693
01:12:26,220 --> 01:12:24,730
official match in our cars and they say

1694
01:12:28,049 --> 01:12:26,230
yeah man we see UFOs all the time we got

1695
01:12:29,390 --> 01:12:28,059
albums full of them we're sick of them

1696
01:12:32,069 --> 01:12:29,400
we know we see these things all the time

1697
01:12:34,799 --> 01:12:32,079
so basically you know you makes you want

1698
01:12:37,379 --> 01:12:34,809
to you know spend like a month there and

1699
01:12:41,399 --> 01:12:37,389
just set up shop and see what you

1700
01:12:43,380 --> 01:12:41,409
capture Wow yeah it is

1701
01:12:45,630 --> 01:12:43,390
yeah it's puzzling why there's

1702
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:45,640
just so much activity in that area it

1703
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:48,130
really is and you said earlier the 39th

1704
01:12:54,170 --> 01:12:50,650
parallel I'm not sure if I heard anyone

1705
01:12:57,450 --> 01:12:54,180
else talk about that yeah that's a

1706
01:13:00,360 --> 01:12:57,460
there's a lot of cases across this area

1707
01:13:01,770 --> 01:13:00,370
of the United States I think I'm saying

1708
01:13:03,450 --> 01:13:01,780
McHale mutilations from what I

1709
01:13:06,660 --> 01:13:03,460
understand in that 30-minute parallel

1710
01:13:09,690 --> 01:13:06,670
and what is you know they discovered new

1711
01:13:11,850 --> 01:13:09,700
things all the time there's a one of the

1712
01:13:15,090 --> 01:13:11,860
shows I saw right on this parallel there

1713
01:13:18,330 --> 01:13:15,100
were all these interesting formations

1714
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:18,340
and four huge formations and now we

1715
01:13:25,650 --> 01:13:21,970
found out that that area was struck by

1716
01:13:27,270 --> 01:13:25,660
multiple meteorites of great size back

1717
01:13:29,130 --> 01:13:27,280
way back in the past and that's what

1718
01:13:30,990 --> 01:13:29,140
created these formations right through

1719
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:31,000
the heart of the United States

1720
01:13:37,980 --> 01:13:34,690
Wow that is pretty interesting we have

1721
01:13:40,620 --> 01:13:37,990
another question on the board off this

1722
01:13:43,860 --> 01:13:40,630
topic and with your investigation work

1723
01:13:46,950 --> 01:13:43,870
with MUFON has there been any cases you

1724
01:13:49,380 --> 01:13:46,960
were involved in that have had a

1725
01:13:52,830 --> 01:13:49,390
profound emotional effect on witnesses

1726
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:52,840
if so did they influence you do you

1727
01:14:01,380 --> 01:13:55,810
think human elements sometimes gets

1728
01:14:04,650 --> 01:14:01,390
missed from witness reports you know

1729
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:04,660
I've gotten several cases even where

1730
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:06,610
yeah people get very emotional about

1731
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:08,530
what they think they witnessed and the

1732
01:14:12,690 --> 01:14:11,170
reason I say that is because you know

1733
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:12,700
you've followed you today is it's real

1734
01:14:17,970 --> 01:14:13,810
challenging me it's probably one of the

1735
01:14:20,010 --> 01:14:17,980
hardest fields that you can you know

1736
01:14:22,470 --> 01:14:20,020
take part in because there's so many

1737
01:14:25,140 --> 01:14:22,480
different facets to it you know from the

1738
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:25,150
abduction experiencers to spiritual

1739
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:28,210
people to you know what Ben and I like

1740
01:14:31,250 --> 01:14:29,770
to focus on is the hard evidence you

1741
01:14:34,500 --> 01:14:31,260
know you'll never hear us talking about

1742
01:14:35,910 --> 01:14:34,510
you know we're never going to speculate

1743
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:35,920
if something's an alien or there's

1744
01:14:39,930 --> 01:14:37,290
something is from its mother world

1745
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:39,940
unless we have that physical evidence

1746
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:41,890
unless there's some kind of an alien

1747
01:14:45,590 --> 01:14:43,330
sitting right in front of us and showing

1748
01:14:48,090 --> 01:14:45,600
us their technology and giving us a ride

1749
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:48,100
so we get a lot of people to speculate

1750
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:49,690
what they think they saw if they see a

1751
01:14:52,590 --> 01:14:51,010
light in the sky and they say they were

1752
01:14:55,290 --> 01:14:52,600
emotionally affected and then they had

1753
01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:55,300
these dreams that you know things happen

1754
01:14:58,350 --> 01:14:56,170
to them and

1755
01:15:01,350 --> 01:14:58,360
you know we had missing time you know

1756
01:15:04,590 --> 01:15:01,360
that could very well be true but we're

1757
01:15:06,270 --> 01:15:04,600
not qualified to hypnotize anybody we're

1758
01:15:08,070 --> 01:15:06,280
not qualified to speculate what happened

1759
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:08,080
to them and there's people and MUFON

1760
01:15:12,689 --> 01:15:10,690
that do specialize in that area so we

1761
01:15:15,180 --> 01:15:12,699
don't even try to to pretend that we

1762
01:15:17,550 --> 01:15:15,190
know that information but we will you

1763
01:15:20,220 --> 01:15:17,560
know do our best to gather hard physical

1764
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:20,230
evidence and get things analyzed photo

1765
01:15:26,490 --> 01:15:23,410
analysis we use you know the tools like

1766
01:15:28,709 --> 01:15:26,500
ela and made of made of tag analyzers

1767
01:15:30,689 --> 01:15:28,719
and you know photo forensics and things

1768
01:15:32,010 --> 01:15:30,699
like that to try and determine if a

1769
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:32,020
photograph is manipulate been

1770
01:15:35,250 --> 01:15:33,250
manipulated or faked you know

1771
01:15:39,270 --> 01:15:35,260
recompressed or what have you trying to

1772
01:15:41,430 --> 01:15:39,280
help that witness witnesses testimony of

1773
01:15:44,070 --> 01:15:41,440
course we want to believe and but unless

1774
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:44,080
we have that real proof and that's we

1775
01:15:47,910 --> 01:15:45,370
love so much much liqueur there's just

1776
01:15:50,100 --> 01:15:47,920
so much tangible evidence and so much

1777
01:15:52,350 --> 01:15:50,110
you know original photographs to work

1778
01:15:54,090 --> 01:15:52,360
with and then we have Rey you know and

1779
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:54,100
so he's been a great resource for us and

1780
01:15:58,439 --> 01:15:56,530
that's one of the historical cases that

1781
01:16:01,439 --> 01:15:58,449
we've just been immersed in because we

1782
01:16:03,750 --> 01:16:01,449
have that access we have you know array

1783
01:16:09,300 --> 01:16:03,760
at our back door to help us out with

1784
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:09,310
that mm-hmm let's see someone wanted to

1785
01:16:17,729 --> 01:16:13,330
know what you thought about the whole

1786
01:16:19,950 --> 01:16:17,739
UFO paranormal connection have you

1787
01:16:21,750 --> 01:16:19,960
experienced anything like that you know

1788
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:21,760
the connection between other paranormal

1789
01:16:29,100 --> 01:16:24,130
activities and UFOs I believe that

1790
01:16:31,350 --> 01:16:29,110
Scotian well I think a big there's a

1791
01:16:34,169 --> 01:16:31,360
book you could call a psychic connection

1792
01:16:36,660 --> 01:16:34,179
I think that if we're dealing with a

1793
01:16:38,310 --> 01:16:36,670
civilization that's you know five

1794
01:16:40,919 --> 01:16:38,320
thousand five hundred thousand five

1795
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:40,929
million whatever years ahead of us they

1796
01:16:45,959 --> 01:16:42,850
would have the ability to probably

1797
01:16:49,470 --> 01:16:45,969
monitor you on some type of personal

1798
01:16:51,689 --> 01:16:49,480
level I mean if NSA can do it certainly

1799
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:51,699
a race coming from somewhere else could

1800
01:16:55,229 --> 01:16:53,650
do it I think that they know when you're

1801
01:16:57,150 --> 01:16:55,239
observing them I think they know where

1802
01:16:58,680 --> 01:16:57,160
you might be thinking I think there's a

1803
01:17:01,380 --> 01:16:58,690
psychic connection that's why some

1804
01:17:03,990 --> 01:17:01,390
people do seem to be attractors but a

1805
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:04,000
lot of people when they say shoot I got

1806
01:17:07,530 --> 01:17:06,010
to grab my camera that's when they

1807
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:07,540
disappear because they know you're

1808
01:17:10,620 --> 01:17:08,530
grabbing a camera the

1809
01:17:12,150 --> 01:17:10,630
I think there's some type of psychic

1810
01:17:14,430 --> 01:17:12,160
connection that's not really psychic

1811
01:17:16,470 --> 01:17:14,440
it's just high-technology you know it's

1812
01:17:17,910 --> 01:17:16,480
just something that we haven't imagined

1813
01:17:19,110 --> 01:17:17,920
yet but they they probably know what

1814
01:17:21,180 --> 01:17:19,120
you're thinking what your actions are

1815
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:21,190
going to be they know who's observing

1816
01:17:25,650 --> 01:17:23,770
them because I feel with the technology

1817
01:17:27,060 --> 01:17:25,660
they have if they really really didn't

1818
01:17:30,330 --> 01:17:27,070
want you to see him then you wouldn't

1819
01:17:32,460 --> 01:17:30,340
see him they probably do show themselves

1820
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:32,470
at times may could be some type of

1821
01:17:38,490 --> 01:17:36,370
mechanical issue but maybe just to test

1822
01:17:40,410 --> 01:17:38,500
what happens afterwards to do a study to

1823
01:17:42,180 --> 01:17:40,420
you know kind of like a field study

1824
01:17:44,310 --> 01:17:42,190
could be students on a field trip for

1825
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:44,320
all we know but they're you know they

1826
01:17:47,700 --> 01:17:45,850
might appear for five seconds and

1827
01:17:49,110 --> 01:17:47,710
disappear and then okay how they react

1828
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:49,120
what are they thinking they're one of my

1829
01:17:52,890 --> 01:17:51,250
favorite cases is that one in Italy in

1830
01:17:54,420 --> 01:17:52,900
that remote region where the Catholic

1831
01:17:56,580 --> 01:17:54,430
priests and the schoolchildren were

1832
01:17:58,350 --> 01:17:56,590
watching that UFO and the people up over

1833
01:17:59,790 --> 01:17:58,360
the phone the dome were like waving back

1834
01:18:01,650 --> 01:17:59,800
and forth that that sighting was like a

1835
01:18:03,570 --> 01:18:01,660
couple 10 20 minutes long or something

1836
01:18:09,390 --> 01:18:03,580
wasn't it yeah that was there for like a

1837
01:18:11,180 --> 01:18:09,400
day time looking at it they went are you

1838
01:18:16,530 --> 01:18:11,190
talking about the farther the father

1839
01:18:19,020 --> 01:18:16,540
Guild case yeah yeah yeah and she

1840
01:18:20,460 --> 01:18:19,030
stopped but you know to you had somebody

1841
01:18:24,090 --> 01:18:20,470
that says whether you talk about all

1842
01:18:26,490 --> 01:18:24,100
cases alejandro touched on the the

1843
01:18:27,990 --> 01:18:26,500
triangles and you know he said red light

1844
01:18:30,150 --> 01:18:28,000
at the base i don't know if you met red

1845
01:18:33,510 --> 01:18:30,160
light in the center but virginia gets a

1846
01:18:35,310 --> 01:18:33,520
lot of triangle reports and when i hear

1847
01:18:37,650 --> 01:18:35,320
you know white light on each corner red

1848
01:18:39,780 --> 01:18:37,660
light in the center that to me sounds so

1849
01:18:43,650 --> 01:18:39,790
much like a nuts and bolts military type

1850
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:43,660
vehicle what's interesting is in Ray's

1851
01:18:47,790 --> 01:18:45,970
one of rays power point where these

1852
01:18:50,130 --> 01:18:47,800
things seem to be coming off this larger

1853
01:18:51,870 --> 01:18:50,140
craft and docking underneath it their

1854
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:51,880
triangle shape but they look like sports

1855
01:18:57,080 --> 01:18:53,650
models and this is from the 70s and

1856
01:18:59,970 --> 01:18:57,090
they're not trying to shape crafts

1857
01:19:03,960 --> 01:18:59,980
people don't realize that originally the

1858
01:19:06,690 --> 01:19:03,970
Roswell crash was reported as a delta

1859
01:19:08,820 --> 01:19:06,700
shaped craft so that's something that

1860
01:19:10,530 --> 01:19:08,830
could be coming out of a larger objects

1861
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:10,540
that are flying aerodynamically thus

1862
01:19:15,930 --> 01:19:12,850
they have the Delta shape maybe using

1863
01:19:18,510 --> 01:19:15,940
some more atmospheric type of polishing

1864
01:19:21,180 --> 01:19:18,520
but I think here and then since the late

1865
01:19:21,970 --> 01:19:21,190
70s early 80s I think most of these

1866
01:19:25,330 --> 01:19:21,980
triangles

1867
01:19:27,010 --> 01:19:25,340
our military and they sometimes fly them

1868
01:19:29,170 --> 01:19:27,020
over we have one go right down a highway

1869
01:19:31,150 --> 01:19:29,180
in Richmond with or near Richmond with

1870
01:19:33,010 --> 01:19:31,160
some footage they clearly showed a

1871
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:33,020
triangle with a red light in it moving

1872
01:19:37,270 --> 01:19:35,690
very slowly and silently that to me is

1873
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:37,280
just to nuts and bolts I think that's

1874
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:40,850
military black project and also Martin I

1875
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:42,650
just gonna add to that that I recently

1876
01:19:46,780 --> 01:19:44,090
had lunch with an old friend of mine

1877
01:19:48,580 --> 01:19:46,790
haven't seen in 20 years and I was

1878
01:19:50,830 --> 01:19:48,590
talking about the black triangle crafts

1879
01:19:53,830 --> 01:19:50,840
and things like this and this person was

1880
01:19:56,890 --> 01:19:53,840
telling me that at a young age sitting

1881
01:19:58,330 --> 01:19:56,900
with her father there was a TV show that

1882
01:20:00,880 --> 01:19:58,340
came on to talk about these black

1883
01:20:03,610 --> 01:20:00,890
triangles and he literally dropped his

1884
01:20:05,290 --> 01:20:03,620
beer and his mouth was just a gate

1885
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:05,300
because he said that's the craft I

1886
01:20:11,530 --> 01:20:08,810
worked on when when I was working for

1887
01:20:13,540 --> 01:20:11,540
civilian government and he described how

1888
01:20:16,270 --> 01:20:13,550
the thing flies by putting his hands out

1889
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:16,280
in three-dimensional space and touching

1890
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:19,970
like a flat kind of a control panel and

1891
01:20:24,010 --> 01:20:22,250
he also you know described you know some

1892
01:20:26,410 --> 01:20:24,020
other intricate things about the craft

1893
01:20:28,750 --> 01:20:26,420
but she said that at a young age she

1894
01:20:29,830 --> 01:20:28,760
remembers seeing him go in and out of

1895
01:20:32,710 --> 01:20:29,840
the house with a briefcase with

1896
01:20:35,110 --> 01:20:32,720
handcuffs on and he would disappear to

1897
01:20:36,670 --> 01:20:35,120
different parts of the world just all of

1898
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:36,680
a sudden like two days later he was gone

1899
01:20:41,350 --> 01:20:39,290
for a week kind of thing so not sure

1900
01:20:42,850 --> 01:20:41,360
what he was doing for a living but she

1901
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:42,860
didn't remember the day that he saw that

1902
01:20:46,660 --> 01:20:44,570
on TV and he was amazed that it was

1903
01:20:50,070 --> 01:20:46,670
being shown well I have I have some

1904
01:20:53,650 --> 01:20:50,080
questions since we're on this subject

1905
01:20:56,110 --> 01:20:53,660
because of the military connection you

1906
01:21:00,850 --> 01:20:56,120
know I think it's possible that some of

1907
01:21:05,890 --> 01:21:00,860
these are military questions are why

1908
01:21:07,510 --> 01:21:05,900
would they be exposing these crafts so

1909
01:21:08,740 --> 01:21:07,520
often and all over the place in

1910
01:21:11,350 --> 01:21:08,750
populated areas

1911
01:21:13,890 --> 01:21:11,360
that's one question another question is

1912
01:21:18,370 --> 01:21:13,900
if there was silent propulsion that

1913
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:18,380
could move a craft slowly over head it

1914
01:21:23,740 --> 01:21:20,410
just seems like that couldn't be kept

1915
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:23,750
quiet as long as it has been and there's

1916
01:21:30,100 --> 01:21:27,530
you know I spoke to a girl at an auction

1917
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:30,110
gallery I'd say I don't know six months

1918
01:21:41,189 --> 01:21:37,800
she said oh I saw online you do a show

1919
01:21:45,030 --> 01:21:41,199
on UFOs and when I was when I was young

1920
01:21:47,550 --> 01:21:45,040
you know hit back in like 1973 I think

1921
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:47,560
she said it was 73 in Massachusetts she

1922
01:21:51,629 --> 01:21:49,449
said that this big huge triangle came

1923
01:21:53,729 --> 01:21:51,639
over are floated over a car and my aunt

1924
01:21:56,459 --> 01:21:53,739
got out and you know she's telling me

1925
01:21:58,220 --> 01:21:56,469
this whole story all excited you know

1926
01:22:00,990 --> 01:21:58,230
she never really thinks about UFOs

1927
01:22:03,959 --> 01:22:01,000
anymore but you know that's something

1928
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:03,969
that she saw so if these crafts are

1929
01:22:09,300 --> 01:22:06,130
military how could they be around first

1930
01:22:14,100 --> 01:22:09,310
of all so long and you talk to David

1931
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:14,110
Marlar about that and how could they be

1932
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:18,610
kept a secret so long and that type of

1933
01:22:23,250 --> 01:22:21,850
propulsion well we know the government

1934
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:23,260
is good at keeping secrets

1935
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:27,610
and I always go back to the a-bomb that

1936
01:22:31,169 --> 01:22:30,130
had maybe ten thousand people working on

1937
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:31,179
their project and the Vice President

1938
01:22:37,020 --> 01:22:33,010
United States knew nothing about it

1939
01:22:38,850 --> 01:22:37,030
until they dropped on Nagasaki so the

1940
01:22:41,370 --> 01:22:38,860
government can keep secrets usually when

1941
01:22:43,919 --> 01:22:41,380
they show US military craft like the

1942
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:43,929
sr-71 blackbird I mean that thing was

1943
01:22:49,890 --> 01:22:47,290
built a long time ago and we didn't see

1944
01:22:51,810 --> 01:22:49,900
it for a long time there are other

1945
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:51,820
projects that when they show us

1946
01:22:56,399 --> 01:22:54,850
something usually it's old it's not the

1947
01:22:59,310 --> 01:22:56,409
latest technology it's it's the latest

1948
01:23:02,459 --> 01:22:59,320
when they show us and the silent

1949
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:02,469
triangles could be you know there as far

1950
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:04,690
as what might be called the Aurora goes

1951
01:23:11,790 --> 01:23:08,770
or the TR b TR b3 that could be a

1952
01:23:14,669 --> 01:23:11,800
durable type craft that you know is

1953
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:14,679
flying on helium or something I think

1954
01:23:20,280 --> 01:23:16,210
that's isn't it I've heard that was a

1955
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:20,290
hoax well no there was designs that seen

1956
01:23:23,669 --> 01:23:22,210
designs for something because you know

1957
01:23:27,660 --> 01:23:23,679
we are going back to these

1958
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:27,670
lighter-than-air ships that don't blow

1959
01:23:30,570 --> 01:23:29,170
up like that anywhere it looked like

1960
01:23:33,419 --> 01:23:30,580
what's-her-name's but oh yeah the

1961
01:23:35,580 --> 01:23:33,429
Kardashian ship but you know and that

1962
01:23:39,180 --> 01:23:35,590
that crashed also but

1963
01:23:41,610 --> 01:23:39,190
the thing with military is that you know

1964
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:41,620
it can be an experiment like well let's

1965
01:23:45,420 --> 01:23:43,090
fly this down the highway see what

1966
01:23:47,730 --> 01:23:45,430
people see you know how easily does it

1967
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:47,740
get dismissed how easily - do people say

1968
01:23:52,050 --> 01:23:49,810
you're crazy you didn't see anything you

1969
01:23:54,180 --> 01:23:52,060
know and even the footage you know it

1970
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:54,190
could be photoshopped there's just a lot

1971
01:23:57,660 --> 01:23:55,570
of things there are a lot of reasons why

1972
01:23:59,250 --> 01:23:57,670
they would test and they they've done it

1973
01:24:01,620 --> 01:23:59,260
before they've tested things to see if

1974
01:24:05,550 --> 01:24:01,630
people notice see but it's the news see

1975
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:05,560
if it kept quiet it's easy to deny they

1976
01:24:09,180 --> 01:24:07,690
can always deny everything that's not

1977
01:24:10,740 --> 01:24:09,190
ours we didn't fly that we don't have

1978
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:10,750
anything like that but they could be

1979
01:24:14,670 --> 01:24:12,490
really doing and it's just all a social

1980
01:24:18,030 --> 01:24:14,680
experiment well see ya here's another

1981
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:18,040
one I have a listener I haven't seen her

1982
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:19,330
I haven't heard from her in a while

1983
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:21,610
she's from Australia grew up in

1984
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:24,250
Australia she's in her 30s now and when

1985
01:24:27,690 --> 01:24:26,170
she was around eight or nine years old

1986
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:27,700
she was in the garden with her mother

1987
01:24:34,470 --> 01:24:31,690
and she felt this force that actually

1988
01:24:36,150 --> 01:24:34,480
pushed her down on the ground she

1989
01:24:38,130 --> 01:24:36,160
couldn't really explain what it was and

1990
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:38,140
looked up and there was a big huge

1991
01:24:45,090 --> 01:24:41,410
triangle like floating over and she felt

1992
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:45,100
like the force of it and silent

1993
01:24:50,010 --> 01:24:47,410
completely silent and this is going back

1994
01:24:51,900 --> 01:24:50,020
you know many years I just it's hard for

1995
01:24:55,560 --> 01:24:51,910
me to fathom that the military and

1996
01:25:00,000 --> 01:24:55,570
different places I also had a an

1997
01:25:02,700 --> 01:25:00,010
astronomer a amateur astronomer used to

1998
01:25:05,700 --> 01:25:02,710
be part of the show who passed away last

1999
01:25:07,500 --> 01:25:05,710
year and his thing was he was carrying

2000
01:25:12,030 --> 01:25:07,510
his telescope back to his house in

2001
01:25:14,430 --> 01:25:12,040
England and you know a huge he also said

2002
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:14,440
it was huge and you hear that a lot huge

2003
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:16,810
triangle now you say only a dirigibles

2004
01:25:23,910 --> 01:25:20,610
and so you gotta say it right it's huge

2005
01:25:26,160 --> 01:25:23,920
but so he saw this triangle float

2006
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:26,170
you know float over and and then a

2007
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:27,730
question on the message board why do

2008
01:25:31,620 --> 01:25:29,290
they have navigation light so the

2009
01:25:33,740 --> 01:25:31,630
military experimental craft have

2010
01:25:37,590 --> 01:25:33,750
navigation lights well that's possible

2011
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:37,600
right it's hard to say I mean a lot of

2012
01:25:41,460 --> 01:25:39,730
these you know flying vehicles like you

2013
01:25:43,020 --> 01:25:41,470
know the kind that you see like in Close

2014
01:25:45,180 --> 01:25:43,030
Encounters they sure had a lot of lights

2015
01:25:48,330 --> 01:25:45,190
and they've been described that way but

2016
01:25:51,290 --> 01:25:48,340
I think that in our experience the

2017
01:25:54,750 --> 01:25:51,300
that crafts that we have seen that our

2018
01:25:56,580 --> 01:25:54,760
real lack of a better word um they don't

2019
01:25:59,100 --> 01:25:56,590
seem to have lights they just have they

2020
01:26:01,650 --> 01:25:59,110
just distort the air around them we see

2021
01:26:03,930 --> 01:26:01,660
a lot of you know plasma type evidence

2022
01:26:06,510 --> 01:26:03,940
that if there is a light it's it's being

2023
01:26:08,610 --> 01:26:06,520
emitted from that propulsion mechanism

2024
01:26:10,440 --> 01:26:08,620
so to speak but I haven't really seen

2025
01:26:12,570 --> 01:26:10,450
anything it has like Christmas lights or

2026
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:12,580
anything fancy like that other one thing

2027
01:26:17,580 --> 01:26:15,370
especially working with Ray is some of

2028
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:17,590
these day report portholes with lights

2029
01:26:22,950 --> 01:26:19,690
whereas that could be really some type

2030
01:26:25,010 --> 01:26:22,960
of magnetic or plasma venting because

2031
01:26:27,930 --> 01:26:25,020
with plasma and some of the

2032
01:26:29,490 --> 01:26:27,940
electromagnetic effects you can create

2033
01:26:30,900 --> 01:26:29,500
all kinds of colors that look like

2034
01:26:32,820 --> 01:26:30,910
lights but they're a factor of the

2035
01:26:35,610 --> 01:26:32,830
propulsion and probably the material

2036
01:26:37,530 --> 01:26:35,620
that these things are made of and you

2037
01:26:40,470 --> 01:26:37,540
know probably not metal probably some

2038
01:26:43,440 --> 01:26:40,480
type of ceramic conductive whereas the

2039
01:26:46,590 --> 01:26:43,450
whole ship might be conductive but it's

2040
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:46,600
just I mean from what we've seen that

2041
01:26:50,970 --> 01:26:48,730
Ray has are these triangles back in the

2042
01:26:54,360 --> 01:26:50,980
70s they just don't look like these

2043
01:26:55,890 --> 01:26:54,370
really sharp edge triangles black

2044
01:26:57,480 --> 01:26:55,900
triangles that are being imported now

2045
01:27:00,960 --> 01:26:57,490
there's a little enormous yeah they look

2046
01:27:02,820 --> 01:27:00,970
like they're constructed here where the

2047
01:27:07,170 --> 01:27:02,830
other ones were just so exotic looking

2048
01:27:09,660 --> 01:27:07,180
and so almost like built for tremendous

2049
01:27:11,490 --> 01:27:09,670
speed that they just didn't look like

2050
01:27:13,140 --> 01:27:11,500
something that we would make the the

2051
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:13,150
ones they're being filmed just look like

2052
01:27:16,890 --> 01:27:15,370
a black project in the shape of a

2053
01:27:18,720 --> 01:27:16,900
triangle that's our black bird looks

2054
01:27:21,750 --> 01:27:18,730
really weird when it's flying a lot of

2055
01:27:23,940 --> 01:27:21,760
these craft do the the a lot of the

2056
01:27:26,190 --> 01:27:23,950
stealth fighters look like discs on edge

2057
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:26,200
when they're coming towards you and a

2058
01:27:30,390 --> 01:27:28,570
lot of people did report triangles and

2059
01:27:32,130 --> 01:27:30,400
the day when a lot of these planes are

2060
01:27:35,220 --> 01:27:32,140
flying that are our triangle at shape

2061
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:35,230
plus you can have a I mean an airplane

2062
01:27:41,010 --> 01:27:38,170
has a red green and white light situated

2063
01:27:43,260 --> 01:27:41,020
for navigation lights and landing lights

2064
01:27:45,540 --> 01:27:43,270
because we live near Dulles Airport and

2065
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:45,550
in a distance it looks like a triangle

2066
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:47,290
because the lights are in a shape of a

2067
01:27:51,180 --> 01:27:49,810
triangle and we did have one reported

2068
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:51,190
triangle right by a Dulles Airport

2069
01:27:56,250 --> 01:27:53,290
reported by a pilot on his way home and

2070
01:27:58,500 --> 01:27:56,260
you know he knows what aircraft looked

2071
01:28:00,480 --> 01:27:58,510
like he actually trains pilots and he

2072
01:28:01,899 --> 01:28:00,490
was just getting off the X and Route 28

2073
01:28:03,969 --> 01:28:01,909
on a 66

2074
01:28:06,159 --> 01:28:03,979
West heading towards Manassas and he

2075
01:28:08,169 --> 01:28:06,169
reported seeing this black triangular

2076
01:28:11,709 --> 01:28:08,179
craft with a red dome light in the

2077
01:28:14,529 --> 01:28:11,719
middle but no lights on the points and

2078
01:28:16,569 --> 01:28:14,539
the each each side of the craft he was

2079
01:28:20,409 --> 01:28:16,579
reported between 30 and 50 feet in

2080
01:28:23,370 --> 01:28:20,419
length now as far as black triangles go

2081
01:28:27,069 --> 01:28:23,380
you know the ones that I think are truly

2082
01:28:29,109 --> 01:28:27,079
extraterrestrial are like a mile and you

2083
01:28:33,939 --> 01:28:29,119
know a mile length and it just you know

2084
01:28:36,669 --> 01:28:33,949
just enormous ly huge but um these craft

2085
01:28:40,390 --> 01:28:36,679
like Ben just described I believe are in

2086
01:28:42,580 --> 01:28:40,400
our military and perhaps you know they

2087
01:28:44,049 --> 01:28:42,590
were that was completely silent to this

2088
01:28:46,540 --> 01:28:44,059
poly report he said there was no sound

2089
01:28:48,129 --> 01:28:46,550
he rolled his windows down he tried to

2090
01:28:50,350 --> 01:28:48,139
follow it as far as he could but you

2091
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:50,360
know after you know ten seconds this

2092
01:28:53,500 --> 01:28:52,130
thing you know started moving picking up

2093
01:28:57,069 --> 01:28:53,510
speed and moving in a direction that the

2094
01:28:58,719 --> 01:28:57,079
road was not traveling in but again yeah

2095
01:29:00,069 --> 01:28:58,729
it's it's very similar to that and Anna

2096
01:29:03,850 --> 01:29:00,079
had another report in North Carolina

2097
01:29:06,580 --> 01:29:03,860
where a woman was vacationing by the

2098
01:29:07,899 --> 01:29:06,590
water and this craft you know was late

2099
01:29:09,429 --> 01:29:07,909
at night like 1:00 in the morning and

2100
01:29:11,949 --> 01:29:09,439
this craft threw right overhead while

2101
01:29:13,449 --> 01:29:11,959
she was out on her balcony smoking

2102
01:29:16,060 --> 01:29:13,459
cigarette and you know it was very

2103
01:29:18,310 --> 01:29:16,070
similar into the same description now

2104
01:29:21,399 --> 01:29:18,320
what about the Belgian UFO wait you know

2105
01:29:24,129 --> 01:29:21,409
I mean I thought what I thought was yeah

2106
01:29:24,879 --> 01:29:24,139
the real famous picture turned out to be

2107
01:29:29,589 --> 01:29:24,889
a hoax

2108
01:29:31,089 --> 01:29:29,599
well okay before we go and just throw

2109
01:29:33,939 --> 01:29:31,099
that away as a hoax I've had long

2110
01:29:39,310 --> 01:29:33,949
conversations with Lesley Kaine about

2111
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:39,320
this this the person that claims that

2112
01:29:44,739 --> 01:29:42,650
was a picture that he hoaxed he has not

2113
01:29:46,479 --> 01:29:44,749
been able to replicate it you know

2114
01:29:48,489 --> 01:29:46,489
that's one of the things and there was

2115
01:29:52,989 --> 01:29:48,499
there's a little bit of hanky-panky

2116
01:29:54,549 --> 01:29:52,999
going on there so I would not 100% just

2117
01:29:57,909 --> 01:29:54,559
say that that's a hundred percent of

2118
01:29:59,709 --> 01:29:57,919
hoax well that's just representative of

2119
01:30:02,020 --> 01:29:59,719
what went on bills and I think there was

2120
01:30:05,979 --> 01:30:02,030
definitely a flap I think that there was

2121
01:30:08,799 --> 01:30:05,989
something unusual that occurred it's

2122
01:30:10,659 --> 01:30:08,809
just you know with all the reports and

2123
01:30:12,549 --> 01:30:10,669
all the sightings that happened during

2124
01:30:15,310 --> 01:30:12,559
that wave in Belgium how come I only

2125
01:30:18,370 --> 01:30:15,320
have that one photograph that to me

2126
01:30:20,830 --> 01:30:18,380
does not make a lot of sense you know

2127
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:20,840
the police cars have cameras and I'm the

2128
01:30:26,770 --> 01:30:24,770
this is 1989 in 1990 and there were no

2129
01:30:29,050 --> 01:30:26,780
cell phones so you know there were there

2130
01:30:32,140 --> 01:30:29,060
were cell phones but very few and none

2131
01:30:33,790 --> 01:30:32,150
but you know guys like Ray in the 50s

2132
01:30:36,399 --> 01:30:33,800
60s and 70s walked around with eight

2133
01:30:38,350 --> 01:30:36,409
millimeter 12 mil 16 millimeter I mean

2134
01:30:40,660 --> 01:30:38,360
it just seems like if something went on

2135
01:30:43,030 --> 01:30:40,670
for the the multiple days it did that

2136
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:43,040
somebody go hey let me grab my old 16

2137
01:30:48,220 --> 01:30:45,290
millimeter and start or my video camera

2138
01:30:49,629 --> 01:30:48,230
and start filming this I don't know you

2139
01:30:52,240 --> 01:30:49,639
know when you when you have these

2140
01:30:55,390 --> 01:30:52,250
reports as famous as that flap is

2141
01:30:57,189 --> 01:30:55,400
there's still only stories until you

2142
01:30:59,919 --> 01:30:57,199
have some other type of evidence a photo

2143
01:31:01,450 --> 01:30:59,929
film multiple witnesses multiple

2144
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:01,460
witnesses are great but it's still a

2145
01:31:08,649 --> 01:31:03,530
story it's still circumstantial evidence

2146
01:31:10,540 --> 01:31:08,659
yeah well Bruce Maccabee says that a

2147
01:31:12,780 --> 01:31:10,550
picture is the weakest part of the whole

2148
01:31:16,540 --> 01:31:12,790
thing you know it has to do with the

2149
01:31:18,069 --> 01:31:16,550
witness Bruce he went on the record just

2150
01:31:20,740 --> 01:31:18,079
recently with his wife's blurry

2151
01:31:22,930 --> 01:31:20,750
photograph of what was the Busby Bigfoot

2152
01:31:24,669 --> 01:31:22,940
and it's just this big blur and he's

2153
01:31:25,750 --> 01:31:24,679
like right there that's that's evidence

2154
01:31:26,950 --> 01:31:25,760
right there that's a Bigfoot you don't

2155
01:31:32,020 --> 01:31:26,960
see you can't see anything I can't

2156
01:31:34,870 --> 01:31:32,030
believe he said that oh wow and then

2157
01:31:36,790 --> 01:31:34,880
even Dave blood he goes he says I

2158
01:31:37,930 --> 01:31:36,800
wouldn't even even talk about this if it

2159
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:37,940
wasn't for because this is Bruce

2160
01:31:41,050 --> 01:31:39,170
Maccabee so that's why I'm talking about

2161
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:41,060
because it's Bruce I'm thinking on

2162
01:31:46,450 --> 01:31:44,690
Facebook I couldn't see anything in the

2163
01:31:48,550 --> 01:31:46,460
photo and the conclusions that were

2164
01:31:50,859 --> 01:31:48,560
coming you know I know Bruce he's a

2165
01:31:55,240 --> 01:31:50,869
great guy I just that was kind of off

2166
01:31:58,689 --> 01:31:55,250
the charts I did that right yeah the the

2167
01:32:00,520 --> 01:31:58,699
Bruce did a good job with Trent you know

2168
01:32:02,169 --> 01:32:00,530
that's another one where the hoax Theory

2169
01:32:04,899 --> 01:32:02,179
keeps coming up that that object was

2170
01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:04,909
hanging from the telephone wires and you

2171
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:08,570
know we have copies of Ray's analysis

2172
01:32:12,939 --> 01:32:10,730
and we also took the original the

2173
01:32:14,890 --> 01:32:12,949
clearest copy the original we could and

2174
01:32:16,689 --> 01:32:14,900
you know that thing definitely is not

2175
01:32:19,839 --> 01:32:16,699
hanging from the wire it definitely has

2176
01:32:22,270 --> 01:32:19,849
a plasma or some type of thermal down

2177
01:32:24,089 --> 01:32:22,280
flow and which the you know the

2178
01:32:27,069 --> 01:32:24,099
witnesses said they were hit with a

2179
01:32:28,959 --> 01:32:27,079
blast of warm air and that second

2180
01:32:30,790 --> 01:32:28,969
picture is tilted towards them

2181
01:32:32,530 --> 01:32:30,800
and you can clearly see a down flow

2182
01:32:35,800 --> 01:32:32,540
coming from that something that in the

2183
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:35,810
50s a hoaxer wouldn't have thought of I

2184
01:32:40,660 --> 01:32:37,610
don't think the Trent thought it was a

2185
01:32:42,610 --> 01:32:40,670
hoax at all because of the good job yeah

2186
01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:42,620
Bruce show there's no string and then

2187
01:32:46,060 --> 01:32:44,330
really something came out they

2188
01:32:48,939 --> 01:32:46,070
mathematically proved there was a string

2189
01:32:50,590 --> 01:32:48,949
on that thing I'm like why don't you

2190
01:32:52,570 --> 01:32:50,600
show me a picture of the string I don't

2191
01:32:54,010 --> 01:32:52,580
care what your math says they still

2192
01:32:56,530 --> 01:32:54,020
can't produce a picture of the string

2193
01:32:58,510 --> 01:32:56,540
and so that's another one of those cases

2194
01:33:01,150 --> 01:32:58,520
where people go wouldn't that you know

2195
01:33:03,910 --> 01:33:01,160
his his side mirror from his truck

2196
01:33:07,780 --> 01:33:03,920
hanging from though yeah what yeah no

2197
01:33:09,430 --> 01:33:07,790
it's clearly has some typos yeah yeah

2198
01:33:11,860 --> 01:33:09,440
those are all really convincing it well

2199
01:33:16,930 --> 01:33:11,870
I'm glad that they're you know that the

2200
01:33:18,490 --> 01:33:16,940
Kent photo or trend photo mm-hmm they do

2201
01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:18,500
a celebration every year about that

2202
01:33:23,950 --> 01:33:21,290
there's like a little conference and I I

2203
01:33:26,530 --> 01:33:23,960
think that is one that will never get

2204
01:33:29,620 --> 01:33:26,540
totally debunked people have tried like

2205
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:29,630
you said yeah this should invite us will

2206
01:33:34,180 --> 01:33:32,090
show them then you can take the picture

2207
01:33:37,270 --> 01:33:34,190
I mean the original photograph without

2208
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:37,280
any contrasting at all clearly shows

2209
01:33:41,620 --> 01:33:39,890
this funnel shape down flow beneath that

2210
01:33:43,150 --> 01:33:41,630
and that's just something that people

2211
01:33:46,330 --> 01:33:43,160
would think of it's like that famous

2212
01:33:49,209 --> 01:33:46,340
photo of the silver cigar shaped object

2213
01:33:51,550 --> 01:33:49,219
in Brazil I think that an engineer snap

2214
01:33:54,550 --> 01:33:51,560
with this big white plume coming out of

2215
01:33:55,979 --> 01:33:54,560
the back really neat photo but it's

2216
01:33:59,290 --> 01:33:55,989
flying over a river and then the river

2217
01:34:00,820 --> 01:33:59,300
is a reflection of the craft I don't

2218
01:34:02,770 --> 01:34:00,830
think anybody that's I'm frozen in the

2219
01:34:04,270 --> 01:34:02,780
water too right yeah and then the stream

2220
01:34:06,189 --> 01:34:04,280
coming out behind it I don't think

2221
01:34:07,689 --> 01:34:06,199
anybody had the capability or even but a

2222
01:34:09,189 --> 01:34:07,699
thought of a picture of black and white

2223
01:34:10,900 --> 01:34:09,199
from I think that's from the fifties

2224
01:34:14,380 --> 01:34:10,910
also or even putting breasts on Bigfoot

2225
01:34:16,420 --> 01:34:14,390
for the human fear the the Patterson

2226
01:34:18,970 --> 01:34:16,430
footage and they put I I think that's a

2227
01:34:22,120 --> 01:34:18,980
real humanoid everything good breasts on

2228
01:34:24,160 --> 01:34:22,130
a suit yeah don't worry it requires

2229
01:34:26,290 --> 01:34:24,170
horses D at that location and the

2230
01:34:29,650 --> 01:34:26,300
footprints were deep in prints and I've

2231
01:34:31,660 --> 01:34:29,660
seen the digital analysis of that the

2232
01:34:33,790 --> 01:34:31,670
knees are in the wrong place the face

2233
01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:33,800
when they finally digitized the face is

2234
01:34:39,700 --> 01:34:36,770
incredibly detailed the mouth is in the

2235
01:34:42,099 --> 01:34:39,710
wrong place there were no mat I don't

2236
01:34:44,500 --> 01:34:42,109
know of any suits made for female

2237
01:34:47,049 --> 01:34:44,510
in that timeframe but they estimated the

2238
01:34:48,729 --> 01:34:47,059
female was at least six and a half feet

2239
01:34:49,329 --> 01:34:48,739
tall weighed close to six seven hundred

2240
01:34:52,209 --> 01:34:49,339
pounds

2241
01:34:55,149 --> 01:34:52,219
well anatomically to the lakes and hip

2242
01:34:57,759 --> 01:34:55,159
and all that did not really line up most

2243
01:34:59,589 --> 01:34:57,769
humans right the rippling muscle and the

2244
01:35:02,079 --> 01:34:59,599
thigh and buttocks and back is just

2245
01:35:05,379 --> 01:35:02,089
there's no suit made that was that tight

2246
01:35:07,270 --> 01:35:05,389
that then skinned today yeah not easy to

2247
01:35:08,889 --> 01:35:07,280
do and that gait they couldn't reproduce

2248
01:35:11,679 --> 01:35:08,899
the gate because the knees in the wrong

2249
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:11,689
place and it's kind of along the lines

2250
01:35:19,929 --> 01:35:14,570
of a gorilla I think Bigfoot is probably

2251
01:35:22,719 --> 01:35:19,939
an undiscovered maybe dar vcn or you

2252
01:35:25,719 --> 01:35:22,729
know an unknown species of some type of

2253
01:35:27,699 --> 01:35:25,729
remnant of early man maybe some kind of

2254
01:35:29,290 --> 01:35:27,709
Neanderthal hybrid or something but I

2255
01:35:32,169 --> 01:35:29,300
think the reason we don't find that

2256
01:35:33,729 --> 01:35:32,179
thing is it's real smart and as one of

2257
01:35:36,069 --> 01:35:33,739
the famous climbers of Mount Everest

2258
01:35:37,779 --> 01:35:36,079
said when he encountered you said the

2259
01:35:39,429 --> 01:35:37,789
reason we don't see it is because we

2260
01:35:41,679 --> 01:35:39,439
know these things can smell us when were

2261
01:35:43,270 --> 01:35:41,689
three miles away and they're very

2262
01:35:45,189 --> 01:35:43,280
interesting they survived all the time

2263
01:35:47,109 --> 01:35:45,199
yeah they're just very intelligent I

2264
01:35:49,060 --> 01:35:47,119
think that are also associated with UFO

2265
01:35:50,139 --> 01:35:49,070
sightings as well as well I don't think

2266
01:35:52,779 --> 01:35:50,149
they spent time here I think they're

2267
01:35:57,839 --> 01:35:52,789
getting either beamed up or something I

2268
01:36:00,909 --> 01:35:57,849
don't know about that but well yeah

2269
01:36:03,009 --> 01:36:00,919
that's reaching fine that's reaching so

2270
01:36:05,049 --> 01:36:03,019
that's what so far off topic are there a

2271
01:36:08,889 --> 01:36:05,059
lot a are there a lot of Bigfoot

2272
01:36:10,089 --> 01:36:08,899
sightings in your area or any well it's

2273
01:36:12,579 --> 01:36:10,099
interesting you mentioned that because

2274
01:36:14,889 --> 01:36:12,589
we were talking to Stan Gordon and

2275
01:36:17,049 --> 01:36:14,899
Ronald Murphy about coming out to my

2276
01:36:18,129 --> 01:36:17,059
house in Pennsylvania next spring we

2277
01:36:19,899 --> 01:36:18,139
were supposed to do it this year but

2278
01:36:21,509 --> 01:36:19,909
Ronald Murphy's wife was injured at work

2279
01:36:23,589 --> 01:36:21,519
and we had to cancel the trip but

2280
01:36:25,179 --> 01:36:23,599
hopefully we'll get Stan Gordon come out

2281
01:36:27,159 --> 01:36:25,189
as well we're gonna do a Bigfoot hunt

2282
01:36:29,709 --> 01:36:27,169
out in Allegheny by the Kinzua Dam

2283
01:36:31,959 --> 01:36:29,719
there's been quite a number of reported

2284
01:36:33,279 --> 01:36:31,969
sightings there and Ronald is some

2285
01:36:34,959 --> 01:36:33,289
research and he says he knows where to

2286
01:36:37,389 --> 01:36:34,969
look we're not experts in that field

2287
01:36:39,699 --> 01:36:37,399
we're just coming along for the ride and

2288
01:36:41,770 --> 01:36:39,709
to assist in any way we can

2289
01:36:44,319 --> 01:36:41,780
maybe we'll provide the that guns and

2290
01:36:46,060 --> 01:36:44,329
ammo or something but it's a really

2291
01:36:48,129 --> 01:36:46,070
interesting subject and he showed us

2292
01:36:51,489 --> 01:36:48,139
some plaster casts which we're really

2293
01:36:52,899 --> 01:36:51,499
interesting and it's just it's a subject

2294
01:36:54,420 --> 01:36:52,909
I'm not too familiar with but I'm

2295
01:36:56,610 --> 01:36:54,430
learning

2296
01:36:58,050 --> 01:36:56,620
sors I mean you know there's species

2297
01:37:00,240 --> 01:36:58,060
discovered all the time you know

2298
01:37:05,670 --> 01:37:00,250
gorillas weren't actually made known to

2299
01:37:07,020 --> 01:37:05,680
be real until I think the 1950s and you

2300
01:37:09,420 --> 01:37:07,030
know just because you can't find

2301
01:37:11,250 --> 01:37:09,430
something the evidence suggests there is

2302
01:37:12,930 --> 01:37:11,260
something out there the one of the most

2303
01:37:16,350 --> 01:37:12,940
famous guys in a world that's studying

2304
01:37:18,210 --> 01:37:16,360
this Mulder him I think the scientists

2305
01:37:22,350 --> 01:37:18,220
you know he's convinced is some type of

2306
01:37:24,690 --> 01:37:22,360
a homo no way there can't open thickest

2307
01:37:26,640 --> 01:37:24,700
that we haven't discovered yet and there

2308
01:37:28,200 --> 01:37:26,650
were creatures like that yeah they were

2309
01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:28,210
creature like that if these things

2310
01:37:33,330 --> 01:37:30,970
survive you know the darsana that there

2311
01:37:35,820 --> 01:37:33,340
are cine ins dark standing is how you

2312
01:37:38,550 --> 01:37:35,830
pronounce it home to do they were you

2313
01:37:40,290 --> 01:37:38,560
know extremely powerful very big much

2314
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:40,300
stronger than today's athletes much

2315
01:37:45,870 --> 01:37:42,690
faster you know just incredible

2316
01:37:47,400 --> 01:37:45,880
creatures and and if these things they

2317
01:37:48,780 --> 01:37:47,410
survived all this time they've learned

2318
01:37:51,360 --> 01:37:48,790
how to survive they know how to hide

2319
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:51,370
they've seen you know don't understand

2320
01:37:56,340 --> 01:37:53,050
it but technology come after them they

2321
01:37:58,320 --> 01:37:56,350
probably understand that people are

2322
01:37:59,940 --> 01:37:58,330
searching for them and and if they can

2323
01:38:03,540 --> 01:37:59,950
smell you three or four miles away like

2324
01:38:05,580 --> 01:38:03,550
most animals can in a while then you're

2325
01:38:08,820 --> 01:38:05,590
you're not gonna find them you know just

2326
01:38:12,090 --> 01:38:08,830
like bears how many bear carcasses do we

2327
01:38:14,730 --> 01:38:12,100
find not hardly any that's something

2328
01:38:16,200 --> 01:38:14,740
they never thought of but yeah yeah

2329
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:16,210
elephants you don't find the car

2330
01:38:19,740 --> 01:38:17,650
business because they wander off to

2331
01:38:23,820 --> 01:38:19,750
specific places yeah when they're time

2332
01:38:25,980 --> 01:38:23,830
through the hitam yeah speaking of

2333
01:38:30,360 --> 01:38:25,990
x-files you just mentioned a we have a

2334
01:38:33,990 --> 01:38:30,370
upcoming guests Dean Haglund Eggland's

2335
01:38:36,660 --> 01:38:34,000
who played ringo langley and the x-files

2336
01:38:38,850 --> 01:38:36,670
he's gonna be on to talk about UFOs he

2337
01:38:43,110 --> 01:38:38,860
has confirmed I'm just setting up a date

2338
01:38:45,110 --> 01:38:43,120
so that's an upcoming guest well big

2339
01:38:47,870 --> 01:38:45,120
x-files fans they you need to have some

2340
01:38:50,490 --> 01:38:47,880
intent MUFON investigators on that Jeff

2341
01:38:51,900 --> 01:38:50,500
know a couple they mentioned MUFON

2342
01:38:54,060 --> 01:38:51,910
several times you know we can play

2343
01:38:55,920 --> 01:38:54,070
ourselves and be a very integral part of

2344
01:38:57,840 --> 01:38:55,930
getting molder on the right track

2345
01:39:00,180 --> 01:38:57,850
yeah I don't know the time to redo the

2346
01:39:01,650 --> 01:39:00,190
show I know that we have what seven

2347
01:39:03,060 --> 01:39:01,660
episodes a seven episodes they've

2348
01:39:06,180 --> 01:39:03,070
already they've already said they're

2349
01:39:07,859 --> 01:39:06,190
coming back with another season ah well

2350
01:39:11,189 --> 01:39:07,869
that's good yeah

2351
01:39:14,339 --> 01:39:11,199
it's great hey we're back a lot of fun a

2352
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:14,349
lot of really good fans love that show

2353
01:39:21,689 --> 01:39:16,449
yeah that's great

2354
01:39:24,600 --> 01:39:21,699
so we have about 10 or 15 minutes left

2355
01:39:26,939 --> 01:39:24,610
is there any particular case that comes

2356
01:39:30,410 --> 01:39:26,949
to mind that you either want to have

2357
01:39:33,810 --> 01:39:30,420
personally investigated that was really

2358
01:39:37,160 --> 01:39:33,820
very very good that you thought was a

2359
01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:37,170
really solid case I mean that's current

2360
01:39:44,399 --> 01:39:40,570
yeah purely I'm not talking about coral

2361
01:39:47,910 --> 01:39:44,409
you know fairly current or in your in

2362
01:39:51,060 --> 01:39:47,920
your MUFON career so to speak there's

2363
01:39:54,180 --> 01:39:51,070
one the Rakata - working on which has to

2364
01:39:56,280 --> 01:39:54,190
do with Shenandoah apparently when it

2365
01:40:00,149 --> 01:39:56,290
rains on this one particular mountain

2366
01:40:02,250 --> 01:40:00,159
this individual noticed these black UFOs

2367
01:40:04,919 --> 01:40:02,260
it seemed to come out of the clouds

2368
01:40:07,649 --> 01:40:04,929
pretty consistently and we're trying to

2369
01:40:11,399 --> 01:40:07,659
get up there to hopefully capture this

2370
01:40:12,899 --> 01:40:11,409
on film and we're probably gonna get

2371
01:40:14,490 --> 01:40:12,909
around I know if we can get there by

2372
01:40:16,339 --> 01:40:14,500
this to summer I'm not sure but we also

2373
01:40:20,100 --> 01:40:16,349
want to get back down North Carolina and

2374
01:40:21,540 --> 01:40:20,110
visit Chris Bledsoe and film some of the

2375
01:40:23,810 --> 01:40:21,550
evidence that he's been showing us on

2376
01:40:28,500 --> 01:40:23,820
his phone and hopefully capture it on

2377
01:40:31,350 --> 01:40:28,510
our phones or our equipment yeah I had a

2378
01:40:32,899 --> 01:40:31,360
trio of cases in Shenandoah which is up

2379
01:40:35,310 --> 01:40:32,909
in the mountains here in Virginia

2380
01:40:36,930 --> 01:40:35,320
there's a deep pass in between the

2381
01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:36,940
mountains a good place to fly around not

2382
01:40:41,700 --> 01:40:39,730
be seen but I had a couple of cases that

2383
01:40:43,169 --> 01:40:41,710
were unknown to each other that tied

2384
01:40:46,620 --> 01:40:43,179
into the fact that there's some really

2385
01:40:49,620 --> 01:40:46,630
strange things going on one family I

2386
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:49,630
talked to the son cuz the mother talked

2387
01:40:52,740 --> 01:40:51,010
to me for a second then couldn't talk

2388
01:40:54,810 --> 01:40:52,750
anymore and his son told me that she's

2389
01:40:56,640 --> 01:40:54,820
so freaked out she doesn't leave the

2390
01:40:58,859 --> 01:40:56,650
house at night because things sweep down

2391
01:41:01,410 --> 01:40:58,869
out of the sky and scare the crap out of

2392
01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:01,420
her and then there was a child that

2393
01:41:06,629 --> 01:41:03,250
disappeared from a house and then turned

2394
01:41:08,580 --> 01:41:06,639
up still ins baby seat on the neighbor's

2395
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:08,590
house hours later after the police

2396
01:41:12,540 --> 01:41:10,330
couldn't find him

2397
01:41:14,220 --> 01:41:12,550
and yeah it gets very emotional when

2398
01:41:18,030 --> 01:41:14,230
things like that happened just really

2399
01:41:19,500 --> 01:41:18,040
bizarre some mutilations up there all in

2400
01:41:21,390 --> 01:41:19,510
the same area and

2401
01:41:23,819 --> 01:41:21,400
and we've actually had somebody in

2402
01:41:26,520 --> 01:41:23,829
political position up in that area tell

2403
01:41:27,810 --> 01:41:26,530
us a UFO story so that is where we're

2404
01:41:30,839 --> 01:41:27,820
getting some very interesting cases I

2405
01:41:33,120 --> 01:41:30,849
did have a triangle case where it wasn't

2406
01:41:36,149 --> 01:41:33,130
reported to MUFON but the guy told me

2407
01:41:39,899 --> 01:41:36,159
his story after one of our meetings that

2408
01:41:42,629 --> 01:41:39,909
he had come to of a triangle but you

2409
01:41:45,240 --> 01:41:42,639
know it it was really bizarre and the

2410
01:41:47,549 --> 01:41:45,250
ones that you think might actually be

2411
01:41:49,049 --> 01:41:47,559
the truth are the ones that are just so

2412
01:41:52,319 --> 01:41:49,059
weird that you couldn't even thank him

2413
01:41:53,819 --> 01:41:52,329
up but this guy had a saw a triangle and

2414
01:41:55,410 --> 01:41:53,829
then it followed him then it hit him

2415
01:41:57,149 --> 01:41:55,420
with a light and then all of a sudden

2416
01:41:58,500 --> 01:41:57,159
there was a light next to his car that

2417
01:42:00,870 --> 01:41:58,510
went through his car and went through

2418
01:42:03,180 --> 01:42:00,880
him and then two hours later he's

2419
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:03,190
watching this thing move away so I had

2420
01:42:08,970 --> 01:42:06,570
the combination of this weird almost

2421
01:42:11,759 --> 01:42:08,980
contact with some type of entity and

2422
01:42:14,879 --> 01:42:11,769
missing time and black triangles and

2423
01:42:17,759 --> 01:42:14,889
white spheres Wow just a really strange

2424
01:42:20,069 --> 01:42:17,769
case that I can't go into all the detail

2425
01:42:21,930 --> 01:42:20,079
but you know sometimes you get these

2426
01:42:24,149 --> 01:42:21,940
cases where you go that is just so

2427
01:42:26,580 --> 01:42:24,159
bizarre that it sounds like it's true

2428
01:42:28,560 --> 01:42:26,590
because you can't make something to

2429
01:42:31,410 --> 01:42:28,570
stuff up and when you get down to some

2430
01:42:33,240 --> 01:42:31,420
of the cases that you know might be

2431
01:42:34,919 --> 01:42:33,250
exactly have happened exactly as they

2432
01:42:37,439 --> 01:42:34,929
are and when people just report what

2433
01:42:40,620 --> 01:42:37,449
happened and it's really bizarre it's

2434
01:42:43,319 --> 01:42:40,630
kind of makes sense because as Carl

2435
01:42:45,479 --> 01:42:43,329
Sagan said you know when you encounter

2436
01:42:47,459 --> 01:42:45,489
an advanced technology everything they

2437
01:42:49,770 --> 01:42:47,469
do could look like magic they could be

2438
01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:49,780
like gods and you you just don't know

2439
01:42:55,379 --> 01:42:52,090
how their technology will operate so you

2440
01:42:58,259 --> 01:42:55,389
you know that's why in some ways the

2441
01:42:59,850 --> 01:42:58,269
Bible could be reports of people having

2442
01:43:01,770 --> 01:42:59,860
encounters with advanced civilizations

2443
01:43:02,549 --> 01:43:01,780
and mistaking them for angels and demons

2444
01:43:05,790 --> 01:43:02,559
and gods

2445
01:43:08,029 --> 01:43:05,800
mm-hmm yeah that's it I don't want to

2446
01:43:11,100 --> 01:43:08,039
upset any any Christians out there but

2447
01:43:13,560 --> 01:43:11,110
you know zekiel suil and a lot of these

2448
01:43:15,810 --> 01:43:13,570
reports I mean it's easy to say that

2449
01:43:20,129 --> 01:43:15,820
that was God but it sounds like

2450
01:43:21,959 --> 01:43:20,139
technology face it without without being

2451
01:43:25,080 --> 01:43:21,969
cruel in any type of way that religion

2452
01:43:27,990 --> 01:43:25,090
often explained many unexplainable

2453
01:43:30,270 --> 01:43:28,000
things through other means you know yeah

2454
01:43:32,660 --> 01:43:30,280
faith is the main thing just you have to

2455
01:43:34,970 --> 01:43:32,670
believe that they have

2456
01:43:37,610 --> 01:43:34,980
it's divine but you know when you

2457
01:43:40,669 --> 01:43:37,620
describe some of these things it just

2458
01:43:44,450 --> 01:43:40,679
sounds like abductions and technology

2459
01:43:46,580 --> 01:43:44,460
and somebody trying to guide us into a

2460
01:43:49,689 --> 01:43:46,590
better ways it's like every culture on

2461
01:43:53,030 --> 01:43:49,699
earth has these records or a legend

2462
01:43:55,220 --> 01:43:53,040
history of a race coming either from the

2463
01:43:56,930 --> 01:43:55,230
sky or across the waters and teach them

2464
01:43:59,120 --> 01:43:56,940
when to plant seeds and how to build

2465
01:44:01,880 --> 01:43:59,130
structures and the progression of the

2466
01:44:03,770 --> 01:44:01,890
equinox and you know that whole whole

2467
01:44:05,930 --> 01:44:03,780
world of astronomy and how to plant

2468
01:44:08,450 --> 01:44:05,940
during seasons and you know it's just

2469
01:44:10,910 --> 01:44:08,460
strange that every culture no matter how

2470
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:10,920
old they are refers back to another

2471
01:44:17,830 --> 01:44:14,010
culture that didn't seem to be earthly

2472
01:44:23,120 --> 01:44:17,840
so whether that's angels or visitors

2473
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:23,130
could be both could be either you know

2474
01:44:26,959 --> 01:44:24,810
just that's why we kind of pursue this

2475
01:44:29,240 --> 01:44:26,969
thing because it makes the world much

2476
01:44:30,890 --> 01:44:29,250
more interesting if yeah it all it all

2477
01:44:34,010 --> 01:44:30,900
it takes is for one of these reports to

2478
01:44:36,590 --> 01:44:34,020
be a real UFO as Stan Freeman has said

2479
01:44:38,959 --> 01:44:36,600
and then you got something yeah and no I

2480
01:44:40,669 --> 01:44:38,969
don't think so yeah I don't think 100

2481
01:44:45,200 --> 01:44:40,679
percent of these cases are all you know

2482
01:44:47,330 --> 01:44:45,210
explainable it's just you know it's one

2483
01:44:48,680 --> 01:44:47,340
of those things where you have to open

2484
01:44:51,590 --> 01:44:48,690
your mind and realize that if there are

2485
01:44:53,300 --> 01:44:51,600
two trillion universes or galaxies in

2486
01:44:55,150 --> 01:44:53,310
the universe then there's probably

2487
01:44:58,189 --> 01:44:55,160
mathematically the Drake Equation

2488
01:44:59,720 --> 01:44:58,199
and this junk Santa diversion yeah yeah

2489
01:45:01,400 --> 01:44:59,730
there's probably a hundred million

2490
01:45:04,189 --> 01:45:01,410
civilizations in our Milky Way galaxy

2491
01:45:06,860 --> 01:45:04,199
maybe more but it seems like Goldilocks

2492
01:45:09,229 --> 01:45:06,870
planets not too far too close to the Sun

2493
01:45:12,110 --> 01:45:09,239
where the liquid waters present is very

2494
01:45:14,120 --> 01:45:12,120
very common in the universe and carbon

2495
01:45:16,400 --> 01:45:14,130
and water and all these elements are

2496
01:45:18,380 --> 01:45:16,410
found everywhere in the universe so that

2497
01:45:20,030 --> 01:45:18,390
would mean that especially if we find

2498
01:45:22,729 --> 01:45:20,040
which I think there are fossils on Mars

2499
01:45:24,350 --> 01:45:22,739
when that had atmosphere if you find

2500
01:45:25,580 --> 01:45:24,360
evidence of life on any other planet in

2501
01:45:28,910 --> 01:45:25,590
our solar system then mathematically

2502
01:45:30,650 --> 01:45:28,920
it's it's everywhere right yeah doesn't

2503
01:45:31,430 --> 01:45:30,660
it could be on a moon - not just a

2504
01:45:33,260 --> 01:45:31,440
planet

2505
01:45:35,840 --> 01:45:33,270
well I even drew up I think under the

2506
01:45:37,729 --> 01:45:35,850
oceans of U of ice is these oceans on

2507
01:45:42,439 --> 01:45:37,739
Europa there's probably life and those

2508
01:45:44,400 --> 01:45:42,449
oceans right right Matt Matthew wants to

2509
01:45:47,190 --> 01:45:44,410
know do either of you

2510
01:45:50,070 --> 01:45:47,200
actively Skywatch or do you use infrared

2511
01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:50,080
night vision technology any tips that

2512
01:45:53,970 --> 01:45:52,090
you can suggest to prove the odds of

2513
01:45:55,170 --> 01:45:53,980
seeing a craft and and someone else want

2514
01:45:59,850 --> 01:45:55,180
to know heavier than one of you actually

2515
01:46:02,160 --> 01:45:59,860
witnessed a UFO yes the best way to

2516
01:46:05,220 --> 01:46:02,170
shoot at night is not to do it during

2517
01:46:07,350 --> 01:46:05,230
the daytime if you're gonna you're gonna

2518
01:46:08,910 --> 01:46:07,360
get a lot more actually a lot more

2519
01:46:11,340 --> 01:46:08,920
activity or in the daytime especially

2520
01:46:12,720 --> 01:46:11,350
during sunset which you know Ray was

2521
01:46:14,100 --> 01:46:12,730
telling us for the longest time he's

2522
01:46:17,250 --> 01:46:14,110
like hey you know when the sun's going

2523
01:46:18,660 --> 01:46:17,260
down you know it ionizing polarizes the

2524
01:46:20,370 --> 01:46:18,670
light and you know if anything is

2525
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:20,380
cloaking in infrared you're gonna see it

2526
01:46:24,930 --> 01:46:22,090
so we kind of did that we experimented

2527
01:46:27,150 --> 01:46:24,940
with and we were in New Mexico sure

2528
01:46:29,280 --> 01:46:27,160
enough Suns going down my camera ready

2529
01:46:30,900 --> 01:46:29,290
and we were looking out the window

2530
01:46:33,540 --> 01:46:30,910
rolled the window down saw something

2531
01:46:34,830 --> 01:46:33,550
photographed about a series of seven of

2532
01:46:37,770 --> 01:46:34,840
ten shots we still don't know exactly

2533
01:46:39,900 --> 01:46:37,780
will we capture but it was something

2534
01:46:43,470 --> 01:46:39,910
emitting light it was moving quickly

2535
01:46:46,590 --> 01:46:43,480
changed direction and it went away from

2536
01:46:48,090 --> 01:46:46,600
us at quite a distance so and very fast

2537
01:46:51,120 --> 01:46:48,100
we don't know exactly what it was

2538
01:46:52,890 --> 01:46:51,130
because I did not bring my telephoto

2539
01:46:54,750 --> 01:46:52,900
lens so one thing for sure is I have a

2540
01:46:57,120 --> 01:46:54,760
really good camera if you can afford it

2541
01:46:59,310 --> 01:46:57,130
as much as you can afford and a really

2542
01:47:01,500 --> 01:46:59,320
good telephoto lens a friend of mine she

2543
01:47:02,790 --> 01:47:01,510
likes to shoot go to the zoo and shoots

2544
01:47:05,220 --> 01:47:02,800
animals and she may take some of the

2545
01:47:08,160 --> 01:47:05,230
best amateur photographs of you know

2546
01:47:10,020 --> 01:47:08,170
lions and tigers and bears and I said

2547
01:47:12,330 --> 01:47:10,030
man what kind of camera do you have she

2548
01:47:14,130 --> 01:47:12,340
saw the canon was a canon 60 or

2549
01:47:15,420 --> 01:47:14,140
something and I said how much was that

2550
01:47:17,010 --> 01:47:15,430
thing she's like I was about you know

2551
01:47:18,360 --> 01:47:17,020
thousand bucks or something for the body

2552
01:47:19,800 --> 01:47:18,370
and so no how much was that lens she's

2553
01:47:21,900 --> 01:47:19,810
like I was about 2,000 for the lens and

2554
01:47:25,200 --> 01:47:21,910
Dragonman I need to get some money

2555
01:47:27,630 --> 01:47:25,210
because if I had her camera in that

2556
01:47:29,910 --> 01:47:27,640
telephoto lens what I went what we saw

2557
01:47:32,340 --> 01:47:29,920
what we shot in New Mexico might be a

2558
01:47:33,870 --> 01:47:32,350
little more identifiable so you know if

2559
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:33,880
you have the money you can afford a

2560
01:47:37,560 --> 01:47:35,890
really good camera in today's cameras

2561
01:47:38,940 --> 01:47:37,570
you know like the canons and then icons

2562
01:47:41,580 --> 01:47:38,950
they also have the ability to shoot

2563
01:47:44,250 --> 01:47:41,590
video in RAW format and all these great

2564
01:47:48,150 --> 01:47:44,260
features that capture a lot of data on

2565
01:47:50,460 --> 01:47:48,160
those on those little SD cards so yeah I

2566
01:47:52,050 --> 01:47:50,470
wouldn't invest too much into

2567
01:47:53,730 --> 01:47:52,060
night-vision cameras and shooting at

2568
01:47:55,500 --> 01:47:53,740
night simply because what are you gonna

2569
01:47:56,940 --> 01:47:55,510
get you're gonna see a bright light and

2570
01:47:57,549 --> 01:47:56,950
against darkness and it's gonna be

2571
01:47:59,259 --> 01:47:57,559
moving very

2572
01:48:00,969 --> 01:47:59,269
quickly data yeah there's actually

2573
01:48:03,309 --> 01:48:00,979
nothing to analyze there but during the

2574
01:48:04,959 --> 01:48:03,319
day you get three-dimensional light you

2575
01:48:07,089 --> 01:48:04,969
know you have an object with reflection

2576
01:48:09,309 --> 01:48:07,099
you know where the Sun is you can you

2577
01:48:10,779 --> 01:48:09,319
know just get it to slow up so much more

2578
01:48:12,879 --> 01:48:10,789
information especially if you can see

2579
01:48:15,339 --> 01:48:12,889
the ground or something to relate to the

2580
01:48:17,259 --> 01:48:15,349
objects you know approximately how far

2581
01:48:19,659 --> 01:48:17,269
away it is from a mountain range or from

2582
01:48:21,549 --> 01:48:19,669
trees or from known objects of known

2583
01:48:23,500 --> 01:48:21,559
height known distance in order to

2584
01:48:25,329 --> 01:48:23,510
triangulate the location of it in

2585
01:48:26,349 --> 01:48:25,339
three-dimensional space at night how are

2586
01:48:28,209 --> 01:48:26,359
you gonna do that all you're gonna have

2587
01:48:30,009 --> 01:48:28,219
is you know you know if you see lights

2588
01:48:31,899 --> 01:48:30,019
at night that are moving in triangular

2589
01:48:34,479 --> 01:48:31,909
shapes and zigzagging around and just

2590
01:48:36,040 --> 01:48:34,489
acting completely bananas that's great

2591
01:48:38,679 --> 01:48:36,050
if you're gonna videotape it but what we

2592
01:48:39,909 --> 01:48:38,689
found is that a photograph you know

2593
01:48:43,299 --> 01:48:39,919
things taken in photographs at night

2594
01:48:44,770 --> 01:48:43,309
just a dot in the sky you know it's

2595
01:48:47,589 --> 01:48:44,780
really just nothing you can really do

2596
01:48:50,589 --> 01:48:47,599
with it yeah yeah lights in the sky are

2597
01:48:52,959 --> 01:48:50,599
tough you know I've seen some things

2598
01:48:55,569 --> 01:48:52,969
that you know I have no idea what they

2599
01:48:58,809 --> 01:48:55,579
are but you know the question that you

2600
01:49:02,109 --> 01:48:58,819
hear a lot of not always skeptics but

2601
01:49:04,329 --> 01:49:02,119
even people in the UFO field say is how

2602
01:49:06,969 --> 01:49:04,339
come we're not seeing more good UFO

2603
01:49:09,969 --> 01:49:06,979
films everybody i mean pictures

2604
01:49:11,229 --> 01:49:09,979
everybody has up around over nice camera

2605
01:49:13,029 --> 01:49:11,239
in their pocket on their phone why

2606
01:49:15,659 --> 01:49:13,039
aren't we seeing better pictures just

2607
01:49:17,739 --> 01:49:15,669
want to hear your side of that well

2608
01:49:19,989 --> 01:49:17,749
having been in this field a long time

2609
01:49:21,759 --> 01:49:19,999
the one thing that happens a lot is when

2610
01:49:25,419 --> 01:49:21,769
you see something extraordinary

2611
01:49:27,939 --> 01:49:25,429
you forget you got a camera there yeah I

2612
01:49:30,369 --> 01:49:27,949
understand yeah yeah everybody's told me

2613
01:49:33,219 --> 01:49:30,379
that and so you like him and then when

2614
01:49:34,989 --> 01:49:33,229
it happened to us we saw we were doing a

2615
01:49:37,389 --> 01:49:34,999
presentation of the library down in

2616
01:49:40,569 --> 01:49:37,399
McLean Virginia and this tumbling black

2617
01:49:42,729 --> 01:49:40,579
sphere was flying over our heads because

2618
01:49:44,559 --> 01:49:42,739
we could see the Jets heading towards

2619
01:49:47,500 --> 01:49:44,569
Dulles to the west this thing was going

2620
01:49:49,449 --> 01:49:47,510
from north to south and we couldn't film

2621
01:49:51,339 --> 01:49:49,459
it I mean I looked through my camera on

2622
01:49:54,279 --> 01:49:51,349
my phone like all I could see was the

2623
01:49:56,109 --> 01:49:54,289
Sun Tony pulled out his camera which is

2624
01:49:58,809 --> 01:49:56,119
supposed to be fully charged it was dead

2625
01:50:00,790 --> 01:49:58,819
it said you know and this happens a lot

2626
01:50:03,219 --> 01:50:00,800
there there are cases where cameras

2627
01:50:05,139 --> 01:50:03,229
drain really quickly that's true and I

2628
01:50:07,119 --> 01:50:05,149
think if they are using a plasma beam

2629
01:50:09,549 --> 01:50:07,129
and that like the beam ahead that ray

2630
01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:09,559
talks about then maybe those things can

2631
01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:11,570
shut down your devices but

2632
01:50:15,430 --> 01:50:13,370
I think a factor is people aren't

2633
01:50:17,050 --> 01:50:15,440
looking up people look only at night we

2634
01:50:20,470 --> 01:50:17,060
don't get much data you just get a light

2635
01:50:23,200 --> 01:50:20,480
the daytime the sunrise and sunset it

2636
01:50:25,000 --> 01:50:23,210
that's when you can really get a lot of

2637
01:50:27,040 --> 01:50:25,010
data and probably these things are

2638
01:50:28,390 --> 01:50:27,050
flying around a lot more but people are

2639
01:50:30,010 --> 01:50:28,400
driving home from work or they're

2640
01:50:33,190 --> 01:50:30,020
picking up the kids or just not looking

2641
01:50:36,010 --> 01:50:33,200
up there but if you look through some

2642
01:50:38,650 --> 01:50:36,020
reputable sites and some of the data the

2643
01:50:42,090 --> 01:50:38,660
files of a MUFON there are great footage

2644
01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:42,100
of UFOs and James Fox is out of the blue

2645
01:50:47,560 --> 01:50:45,530
starts with a black discs hovering over

2646
01:50:49,870 --> 01:50:47,570
telephone poles is that people say you

2647
01:50:51,730 --> 01:50:49,880
don't have clear foot footage a UFO well

2648
01:50:55,000 --> 01:50:51,740
here's clear footage of a disc hanging

2649
01:50:58,450 --> 01:50:55,010
in the air and there are some film from

2650
01:51:00,550 --> 01:50:58,460
back before CGI and Photoshop that show

2651
01:51:02,410 --> 01:51:00,560
very incredible things flying in the air

2652
01:51:05,560 --> 01:51:02,420
so it's out there you just have to

2653
01:51:07,150 --> 01:51:05,570
separate from CGI and and the hoaxers

2654
01:51:10,330 --> 01:51:07,160
and a third phase of moon and all these

2655
01:51:12,670 --> 01:51:10,340
guys that just put up a lot of BS yeah

2656
01:51:14,860 --> 01:51:12,680
yeah unfortunately there's there's that

2657
01:51:15,730 --> 01:51:14,870
and there's another one secure team 10 I

2658
01:51:18,760 --> 01:51:15,740
think it's called

2659
01:51:20,380 --> 01:51:18,770
secure theme 6 security team 7 yeah if

2660
01:51:25,270 --> 01:51:20,390
you just care secure team then you know

2661
01:51:30,940 --> 01:51:25,280
it's a fake news story yeah I had I had

2662
01:51:34,240 --> 01:51:30,950
a former military I'm trying to think of

2663
01:51:36,550 --> 01:51:34,250
Chris melon was on this show he's only

2664
01:51:39,700 --> 01:51:36,560
done two interviews and part of the

2665
01:51:42,970 --> 01:51:39,710
Defense Department years ago and he saw

2666
01:51:44,830 --> 01:51:42,980
a secure team 10 video and he you know

2667
01:51:48,040 --> 01:51:44,840
he broke me is this real

2668
01:51:50,470 --> 01:51:48,050
you know so they fool you know someone

2669
01:51:52,120 --> 01:51:50,480
new really intelligent that knows a lot

2670
01:51:54,910 --> 01:51:52,130
of things and it's it's a shame it's

2671
01:51:57,880 --> 01:51:54,920
again just one of the things I've talked

2672
01:52:00,100 --> 01:51:57,890
about muddying the waters yeah and it's

2673
01:52:02,320 --> 01:52:00,110
not going to get any better and that's

2674
01:52:04,570 --> 01:52:02,330
why we're trying to capture our own data

2675
01:52:06,790 --> 01:52:04,580
we're trying to move more towards will

2676
01:52:09,880 --> 01:52:06,800
still work the cases and all but what we

2677
01:52:11,830 --> 01:52:09,890
want to do is capture our own data that

2678
01:52:13,660 --> 01:52:11,840
way we immediately know we're not

2679
01:52:16,600 --> 01:52:13,670
starting with a hoax because we filmed

2680
01:52:18,430 --> 01:52:16,610
it and then we can because there's

2681
01:52:20,800 --> 01:52:18,440
certain things to look for the the the

2682
01:52:22,570 --> 01:52:20,810
purple the green plasma discharges

2683
01:52:25,230 --> 01:52:22,580
around these objects the warping of

2684
01:52:26,430 --> 01:52:25,240
space the the fields

2685
01:52:28,980 --> 01:52:26,440
there's a difference between that in

2686
01:52:31,950 --> 01:52:28,990
pixelation where object is inserted into

2687
01:52:33,720 --> 01:52:31,960
a film or picture but these things that

2688
01:52:36,650 --> 01:52:33,730
seem to be using exact propulsion and

2689
01:52:39,750 --> 01:52:36,660
have multiple colors they're distorted

2690
01:52:42,060 --> 01:52:39,760
they're very interesting they don't seem

2691
01:52:44,550 --> 01:52:42,070
to be nuts and bolts and they don't

2692
01:52:48,030 --> 01:52:44,560
operate under any laws of physics that

2693
01:52:50,430 --> 01:52:48,040
we know yeah we're out of time can one

2694
01:52:51,540 --> 01:52:50,440
of you blurt out your whet the MUFON

2695
01:52:55,410 --> 01:52:51,550
website one more time

2696
01:52:57,300 --> 01:52:55,420
yeah it's dub-dub-dub MUFON Viacom and

2697
01:52:58,770 --> 01:52:57,310
for those of you who are in the Northern

2698
01:53:01,500 --> 01:52:58,780
Virginia area but and I will be speaking

2699
01:53:03,210 --> 01:53:01,510
this Friday at the Alamo Drafthouse and

2700
01:53:06,720 --> 01:53:03,220
Ashburn introducing the new movie

2701
01:53:09,480 --> 01:53:06,730
arrival all right arrival Wow okay guys

2702
01:53:11,160 --> 01:53:09,490
thanks so much and we'll be talking to

2703
01:53:13,350 --> 01:53:11,170
you again I'm sure real soon

2704
01:53:14,810 --> 01:53:13,360
appreciate it thanks a lot all right

2705
01:53:17,490 --> 01:53:14,820
take care

2706
01:53:20,640 --> 01:53:17,500
all right everyone thanks so much for

2707
01:53:22,140 --> 01:53:20,650
hanging in and listening or if you're

2708
01:53:24,720 --> 01:53:22,150
listening to the podcast thanks for

2709
01:53:27,960 --> 01:53:24,730
supporting the show next week we have

2710
01:53:30,120 --> 01:53:27,970
david paris he was on before several

2711
01:53:31,620 --> 01:53:30,130
years ago talking about warp drive he

2712
01:53:33,360 --> 01:53:31,630
says he has some updates he wants to

2713
01:53:36,210 --> 01:53:33,370
talk about should be an interesting show

2714
01:53:38,120 --> 01:53:36,220
next week and I want to thank the people

2715
01:53:40,830 --> 01:53:38,130
to help out with the show Peggy for

2716
01:53:42,540 --> 01:53:40,840
managing the Facebook page Carrie Lloyd

2717
01:53:45,150 --> 01:53:42,550
Whitehouse for the music Alejandro Rojas

2718
01:53:47,700 --> 01:53:45,160
for the news and that's it we'll see you